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CX2SA > SATDIG 08.06.08 15:17l 609 Lines 22008 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (Giulio AB2VY)
2. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
(Bruce Robertson)
3. Re: AO-51 (Gould Smith)
4. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
(Mark Vandewettering)
5. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
(Tom Clark, K3IO)
6. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (STeve Andre')
7. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (i8cvs)
8. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (i8cvs)
9. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
(Graham Shirville)
10. [ans] ANS-159 Bulletins (Dee)
11. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (Ben Jackson)
12. Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space (Bill Ress)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 19:11:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Giulio AB2VY <amprorg(AT)yahoo.it>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <162242.41849.qm(AT)web26508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Domenico , you are absolutely right! the main problem is that young people
involved in projects not even know what is an "hamradio" and what is an "ham
spirit" (in Italy this is the situation), so
whithout these conditions you can't produce something right for our community
think only this: the only satellites "ham-useful" have been produced outside
university programs
I write this because I personally experienced what it means
Only AMSAT have the right spirit ( and experience..) to produce useful object
when a university has to create a satellite? turns to us...
For Italian University satellities is so
73 de Giulio AB2VY
Hi David, G0MRF
It seem to me that while the Universities are becaming tennis players
we collect telemetry without to be involved in their experiments and
this is like to only pick up their balls and run with it.
The only difference is that each University receive governement
contributions to build the satellite while we radioamateurs invest a lot
of personal money to build our own satellite stations.
Since the Radioamateur Community make a worldwide service to the
Universities my idea is to collect their TLM upon official donations to
be used to build our Orbiting Satellites Carrying Amateur Radio i.e.
satellites with linear transponders to talk each other.
Is the Amateur Satellite Service becaming an endangered species ?
It will became an endangered species if P3-E and EAGLE will be not
placed in orbit as soon as possible but this requires our contributions
............or not ?
Do you like my TLM ?............Please donate !
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message -----
From: <G0MRF(AT)aol.com>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:29 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
> Cubesats built by students from universities in Poland Spain Italy
> Switzerland Romania France and Belgium have been selected for a free ride
to low earth
> orbit. The launch is scheduled on the Vega maiden flight from Kourou at
the
> end 2008 / early 2009 TBC.
>
> _http://www.esa.int/esaED/SEM2BPUG3HF_index_0.html_
> (http://www.esa.int/esaED/SEM2BPUG3HF_index_0.html)
>
> Thanks
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
___________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:45:37 -0300
From: "Bruce Robertson" <ve9qrp(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID:
<49657a760806071445p5a9c757dl685b131af9d2dd39(AT)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dom:
I greatly respect the knowledge you bring to this list, but I think
you are incorrect here on several fronts.
In at least one instance, the cubesat is, in fact, directly involved
in amateur communications:
"OUFTI-1 (University of Li?ge, Belgium): a mission to test the use of
the D-STAR amateur radio digital communication protocol in space"
As for the others, I think we should consider our telemetry-collecting
services paid for in arrears by projects like Delfi C3. Like it or
not, this is the place where small satellites are being routinely and
cheaply launched. We should give this momentum an occasional nudge in
the direction of our interests, not decry it.
Finally, I and others find telemetry transmission and collection a
wholly appropriate and very interesting use of amateur spectra. This
may sound crazy, but I've come to consider those signals that tell me
about conditions of the hardware in space often to be more interesting
than signals bounced from earth through space back to earth.
I think much of the opposition to cubesats derives from the mistaken
opinion that they represent a lost opportunity to apply the same
energies to a HEO satellite. My experience within the university makes
me believe this is false: it is not the case that their universities
and sponsors would, under other circumstances, pitch in for an amateur
communications HEO bird.
73, Bruce
VE9QRP
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it> wrote:
> Hi David, G0MRF
>
> It seem to me that while the Universities are becaming tennis players
> we collect telemetry without to be involved in their experiments and
> this is like to only pick up their balls and run with it.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:40:40 -0400
From: "Gould Smith" <gouldsmi(AT)bellsouth.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51
To: "Vincenzo Mone" <vimone(AT)alice.it>, "Amsat - BBs"
<amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Message-ID: <A0149D867AC845B8A7D4C70224C7A4F6(AT)GouldMainPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
AO-51 is sending digital frames. The trasmitter is in a low power mode so
the satellite can make it through eclipse without the batteries discharging
too much. TXA currently is 310 mW.
It is challenging for me also, easy for the modems to lock on to the clock,
but difficult for the entire packet to come through error free.
This is a good opportunity to try receive station improvements.
73,
Gould, WA4SXM
AO-51 Command Station
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincenzo Mone" <vimone(AT)alice.it>
To: "Amsat - BBs" <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51
> Hi to the list,
> I would like to know if AO-51 is sending frames.
> I can hear it but cannot decode none.
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> 73 de Enzo IK8OZV
> EasyLog 5 BetaTester
> EasyLog PDA BetaTester
> WinBollet BetaTester
> D.C.I. CheckPoint Regione Campania
> Skype: ik8ozv8520
>
>
>
>
> ***************************************
> ***** GSM +39 338 9749786 *****
> ***** SMS +39 338 9749786 *****
> ***** FAX +39 328 7244294 *****
> *** 2nd e-mail: vimone(AT)tin.it ***
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:27:51 -0700
From: Mark Vandewettering <kf6kyi(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <13A68AA4-E5D5-4911-A18A-1D5E49720EDF(AT)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jun 7, 2008, at 10:24 AM, i8cvs wrote:
> Hi David, G0MRF
>
> It seem to me that while the Universities are becaming tennis players
> we collect telemetry without to be involved in their experiments and
> this is like to only pick up their balls and run with it.
>
> The only difference is that each University receive governement
> contributions to build the satellite while we radioamateurs invest a
> lot
> of personal money to build our own satellite stations.
>
> Since the Radioamateur Community make a worldwide service to the
> Universities my idea is to collect their TLM upon official donations
> to
> be used to build our Orbiting Satellites Carrying Amateur Radio i.e.
> satellites with linear transponders to talk each other.
>
> Is the Amateur Satellite Service becaming an endangered species ?
>
> It will became an endangered species if P3-E and EAGLE will be not
> placed in orbit as soon as possible but this requires our
> contributions
> ............or not ?
>
> Do you like my TLM ?............Please donate !
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
I can't understand this kind of attitude.
First of all, let's talk about why cubesats are important. Cubesats
are inexpensive enough for them to be launched with some regularity
using funding sources that are available to universities on small
grants. They have launch opportunities which are affordable and
relatively easy to find and schedule. That means that people are
building satellites and launching satellites with some regularity.
The recent PSLV launch put nine different satellites into orbit.
These satellites include one which contains a Mode U/V transponder,
cameras, digitalkers, slow scan tv, and almost all have CW beacons.
That's pretty darned cool. Monitoring their telemetry has been a fun
activity for me, and I look forward to using the Delfi C3 transponder
when its available for our use.
And yet, we have radio amateurs complaining about them. About them
using _our_ frequencies. Using _our_ equipment to receive
telemetry. We sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. We should be
trying hard to encourage cooperation between these university projects
and amateur radio, not by _dictating_ what they do (after all, they
aren't going to get grants to satsify your own personal desires) but
by trying to find common ground between their goals and our own. But
we have to remember that we _aren't paying for their launches_ and we
_aren't doing their research_. We cannot dictate what they do.
With luck and careful planning, we can _participate_ in what they do.
If we say "if you are going to use our frequencies, we expect you to
give money to us", the only thing that will happen is that they will
cease to use amateur frequencies.
The opinion of a large number of hams on this list seems to be that if
we aren't launching P3-E or Eagle into HEO, then the amateur satellite
is doomed. I think likely should be filed under "self-fufilling
prophecy". Yes, we'd all like have big hardware in HEO. But how
many of those launches have we had in the last decade? What are our
future prospects? It seems to me that we should be paying much closer
attention to these cubesat launches and trying to understand how they
represent an opportunity for amateur radio.
But even if you don't buy that argument, try this one: these satellite
launches have nothing to do with our own inability to get satellites
into orbit. They aren't filling slots on launch vehicles that we
desire. They aren't crowding frequencies that we use. They aren't
pulling money from any funding sources that amateurs use. So if you
can't get behind them, how about just shutting up about them. If they
aren't of any interest to you, so be it. But stop complaining about
them.
Mark (KF6KYI)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:29:56 -0400
From: "Tom Clark, K3IO" <k3io(AT)verizon.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <484B0BE4.2050308(AT)verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Of the satellites listed (according to the list posted at
http://www.amsat.org.uk/iaru/finished.asp), the following satellites
have been coordinated with IARU for use of the amateur satellite spectrum:
* Swisscube: Space Center, Ecole Polytechnique F?d?rale de Laus
* Goliat: University of Bucharest
* UWE-2 (but not yet UWE-3): University of Wuerzburg
Unisat3 from Rome was launched with AO-51, however the UniCubesat is not
listed with the IARU.
It appears that the IARU Coordination group knows nothing about the
other satellites listed in the press release. But then, it also appears
that the recent Russian RS-30 "Jubilee" was apparently
unknown/uncoordinated.
If any of you are in contact with any of these groups, please stress to
them the need for coordination with the rest of the amateur
radio/amateur satellite community. Information of the coordination
process, along with some recommendations (including a very useful link
budget spreadsheet from Jan King W3GEY/VK4GEY) can be found at
http://www.iaru.org/satellite/.
73, Tom
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 18:50:56 -0400
From: "STeve Andre'" <andres(AT)msu.edu>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <200806071850.56940.andres(AT)msu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Saturday 07 June 2008 13:24:52 i8cvs wrote:
> Hi David, G0MRF
>
> It seem to me that while the Universities are becaming tennis players
> we collect telemetry without to be involved in their experiments and
> this is like to only pick up their balls and run with it.
>
> The only difference is that each University receive governement
> contributions to build the satellite while we radioamateurs invest a lot
> of personal money to build our own satellite stations.
>
> Since the Radioamateur Community make a worldwide service to the
> Universities my idea is to collect their TLM upon official donations to
> be used to build our Orbiting Satellites Carrying Amateur Radio i.e.
> satellites with linear transponders to talk each other.
>
> Is the Amateur Satellite Service becaming an endangered species ?
>
> It will became an endangered species if P3-E and EAGLE will be not
> placed in orbit as soon as possible but this requires our contributions
> ............or not ?
>
> Do you like my TLM ?............Please donate !
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
Hello Domenico,
I keep your posts in my mailbox because I find that what you and a
few others say are really valuable. I've little practical experience
on the satellites myself; I have nearly all the equipment, so am
getting there, slowly, at least in part because of the excellent
advice you and others have given here.
I'd have to say that I think I really disagree with you on this
subject. I hope I can explain.
Space is a *big* place, both in terms of its physicality, and the
numbers of people/entities doing things there. Currently the
cubesats seem to be the pre-eminent form factor for getting
up there, and its easy to see why: easier to get a ride up there,
cheaper to build, in fact so cheap that "student" types can now
do so, ala DO-64, et al.
These cubesats aren't like the early sats like AO-7, and they
were never designed that way. I think at least some hams
decry these non-traditional cubesats because of this.
I think what I'm hearing about these little creatures is great!
We're getting a new generation of folks who are thinking in the
sky, working on little systems now, and who knows what will
come about in the future.
Their exposure to amateur radio, even if only thought of as
the expedient route to get tele-command systems running
quickly and cheaply, is still getting folks interested in the
hobby. Ham radio has a way of sticking in folks heads--how
many hams do we all know, who dropped out for years, only
to get back in again? I think the work with amateur radio
will pay off in the future. Think of it as an investment, with
dividends yet to be known.
We longer term hams are responsible for "our" kind of
transponder systems. It shouldn't be up to other entities
for this. I'm still trying to get a good overall understanding
of the two large projects underway, but it does seem as if
squabbling among ourselves is hindering things.
But my main point here is that the cubesats have incredible
potential. Getting student types interested in them and
building things up is going to have a payback for us.
Me, I'd love to see so many of the little beasts racing around
that demos to folks could always have a poster listing "whats
next" and keep the nubies eyes wide open. ;-)
--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf en82
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 00:32:41 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: "Bruce Robertson" <ve9qrp(AT)gmail.com>
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <002c01c8c8ee$66a32a40$0201a8c0(AT)tin.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Bruce, VE9QRP
Belive or not believe you and me and nobody never made a QSO via
a Cubesats.
The Satellite Amateur Radio Community is not made only by Ham Radio
scientist working for the Universities but mostly they are working people
belonging to all working classes.
Be sure that once the Universities have the ESA/NASA/JAXA-sponsored
GENSO project running, they will probably even not need our help anymore,
but only our frequencies !!!
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Robertson" <ve9qrp(AT)gmail.com>
To: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Cc: "AMSAT" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
Dom:
I greatly respect the knowledge you bring to this list, but I think
you are incorrect here on several fronts.
In at least one instance, the cubesat is, in fact, directly involved
in amateur communications:
"OUFTI-1 (University of Li?ge, Belgium): a mission to test the use of
the D-STAR amateur radio digital communication protocol in space"
As for the others, I think we should consider our telemetry-collecting
services paid for in arrears by projects like Delfi C3. Like it or
not, this is the place where small satellites are being routinely and
cheaply launched. We should give this momentum an occasional nudge in
the direction of our interests, not decry it.
Finally, I and others find telemetry transmission and collection a
wholly appropriate and very interesting use of amateur spectra. This
may sound crazy, but I've come to consider those signals that tell me
about conditions of the hardware in space often to be more interesting
than signals bounced from earth through space back to earth.
I think much of the opposition to cubesats derives from the mistaken
opinion that they represent a lost opportunity to apply the same
energies to a HEO satellite. My experience within the university makes
me believe this is false: it is not the case that their universities
and sponsors would, under other circumstances, pitch in for an amateur
communications HEO bird.
73, Bruce
VE9QRP
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, i8cvs <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it> wrote:
> Hi David, G0MRF
>
> It seem to me that while the Universities are becaming tennis players
> we collect telemetry without to be involved in their experiments and
> this is like to only pick up their balls and run with it.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 00:34:00 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
To: "Giulio AB2VY" <amprorg(AT)yahoo.it>, "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <003501c8c8ee$95736b00$0201a8c0(AT)tin.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Giulio AB2VY" <amprorg(AT)yahoo.it>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:11 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: 9 Cubesats selected for free ESA ride to space
> Hi Domenico , you are absolutely right! the main problem is that young
> people involved in projects not even know what is an "hamradio" and what
> is an ham spirit" (in Italy this is the situation), so whithout these
> conditions you can't produce something right for our community
>
> think only this: the only satellites "ham-useful" have been produced
> outside university programs
>
> I write this because I personally experienced what it means
>
> Only AMSAT have the right spirit ( and experience..) to produce useful
> object
>
> when a university has to create a satellite? turns to us...
>
> For Italian University satellities is so
>
>
> 73 de Giulio AB2VY
Hi Giulio, AB2VY
I agree 100% with what you write with one BIG exception:
The University of Marburg in Germany is the only University working into a
university program with AMSAT-DL and with financial + technical contribution
of AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK that was able to designe produce and make
a reality OSCAR-10 OSCAR-13 and AO40
The same University of Marburg is actually working in a university program
to produce P3-E and P5-A for the benefit of both science and Amateur Radio.
But actually once the other worldwide Universities will have the
ESA/NASA/JAXA-sponsored GENSO project running, they will probably
even not need our help anymore, but only our frequencies !!!
Best 73" de
i8CVS Domenico
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