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CX2SA > SATDIG 16.07.08 22:49l 961 Lines 36460 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V3 349
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Sent: 080716/2054Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:18447 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:18447_CX2SA
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. FS: Icom W32A dualband HT (great for sat ops) (John Geiger)
2. Re: Complainers (RFI-EMI-GUY)
3. Vanishing Hams (K5GNA(AT)aol.com)
4. Re: Amsat-BB (Jim Danehy)
5. Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! (Jim Danehy)
6. Re: Vanishing Hams (John Geiger)
7. Is amsat-bb fun for anyone? (Mark Vandewettering)
8. Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! (Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL)
9. Re: Is amsat-bb fun for anyone? (John Geiger)
10. Re: AMSAT NA (JoAnne Maenpaa)
11. Re: AMSAT NA (k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net)
12. Re: Is amsat-bb fun for anyone? (Mark VandeWettering)
13. Re: Amsat-BB (Jeff Moore)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:31:04 -0000
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg(AT)lcisp.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] FS: Icom W32A dualband HT (great for sat ops)
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <029801c8e750$94158f60$7301a8c0(AT)oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have for sale an Icom W32A dualband (2m/70cm) HT with the BP173 and BP180
battery packs, and the BC-110 wall charger. This is the dualband model that
also does dual receive, so it is great for satellite operations because you
can hear yourself on the downlink. The W32A has long been a favorite HT of
satellite operators.
It will also do dual in-band receive, will do wide
receive up into 800mhz. A couple of the keys have the lettering on them a
little worn off, but they are still readable. The rest of the HT looks good.
It also has an aftermarket 17 inch long high gain dualband antenna
instead of the stock antenna. This is also great for giving you the extra
gain you need to hear and get into the satellites.
I am asking $160 shipped in the US, and can take paypal, check, or MO.
International shipping can be worked out.
73s John AA5JG
73s John AA5JG
(ex: W5TD, NE0P)
6M WAS #1275, 6m VUCC #1260
2m VUCC #615, Satellite VUCC #129
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:38:48 -0400
From: RFI-EMI-GUY <Rhyolite(AT)NETTALLY.COM>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Complainers
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487E07F8.9090408(AT)NETTALLY.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Complainers should be prodded to contribute $5 toward the AMSAT general
fund for each post. We could be in orbit by now!
--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"?
"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
"Follow The Money" ;-P
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:52:15 EDT
From: K5GNA(AT)aol.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Vanishing Hams
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <ccb.2eddf551.35af651f(AT)aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi All,
I read the article yesterday that Frank had referred to and forwarded it to
a few friends.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I received this URL today. Read number 16.
_http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-things-vanishing-from-america?i_
(http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-things-vanishing-from-america?i)
cid=100214839x1205495530x1200282778
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Every time I go to an annual swapfest, the average age of attendees is one
year older. We need to spend some time reaching out to a younger generation
or
#16 on the list will come true.
Many years ago, it was in the national interest to have a cadre of trained
radio operators. Today, with CB, Cell Phones, cordless phones, FRS, etc. --
everyone is a radio operator. Now, military communications is done with a
keyboard or microphone -- pretty much universal skills now.
As the article mentions, the airwaves are valuable property and we could
lose them. Although the Amateur Radio Community shines when there is loss of
communications during a disaster, with newer technology, even that could
change.
A few years ago at the 2002 AMSAT meeting in Ft. Worth, Tony, AA2TX was
giving a talk on his antennas made from cardboard boxes and aluminum foil.
There
was a grade school class in attendance with their teacher. When the talk
was over, the kids swarmed over the boxes and aluminum foil to make antennas
with great enthusiasm. Very inspiring -- this is the kind of reaching out we
need.
Instead of our self serving pursuit of DXCC, WAS, VUCC, WAC and others,
maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for bringing new Hams into the
community. Otherwise, someday, no one will remember what those letters even
stood for.
73 & TNX,
Bob
K5GNA
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:58:49 -0400
From: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amsat-BB
To: "Simon Brown \(HB9DRV\)" <simon(AT)hb9drv.ch>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <A6DD85335A61421495BE759D5B3399D8(AT)JamesPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
The ham population in the USA is ~ 800,000 + . Those figures are taken from
the Federal Communications Commission data. Some years back the FCC went to
a 10 year license. If someone decides to drop out it might be a number of
years before their license would expire. Of course you do not write the FCC
and turn in your ticket. The above of course is only an American view of the
ham population. I used to operate a lot of 7 mhz CW. Now it is difficult to
get a QSO during the daylight hours. At night when the propagation is longer
you can find a QSO but not many. A lot has to do with the level of sunspot
activity too. But to say : " the ham ranks are way bigger" is, in my opinion
not accurate from an American view point. You might think that the codeless
license would have made a big difference. It did not. I often kid some of my
friends with the statement that there are only two modes : CB and CW. Of
course CW is the oldest digital mode. I believe that the USA ham ranks
peaked about a decade or two ago.
Jim W9VNE
on the air since 1952
>> now!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Brown (HB9DRV)" <simon(AT)hb9drv.ch>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amsat-BB
> From: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter(AT)gmail.com>
>
>>
>> 2. Compared to 10, 20, and 30 years ago, the ham ranks are way bigger
>> now!!!
>>
>
> And older - much older. Older means richer, just look at the radios we're
> buying and stations we're building these days.
>
> Anyway, it would take one wealthy Ham to leave his estate to AMSAT DL to
> be used to launch P3E in his memory. Any volunteers on the list?
>
> Simon 'Not Dead Yet' HB9DRV
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:03:01 -0400
From: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <D3426F6F0E9E44F69026E78F67688237(AT)JamesPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I think I will go find the unsubscribe instructions . . . how foolish to
bother fellow ham radio operators with comments like this. Just looks bad.
W9VNE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>
To: <eu-amsat(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:26 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
> On 15 Jul 2008 at 21:07, Nate Duehr wrote:
>
>
>> A little boy named Luc cried out again that AMSAT wasn't doing what he
>> wants, but didn't offer any real solutions that will work -- and the
>> entire mailing list looked at him together and said, "three time".
>>
>> --
>> Nate Duehr, WY0X
>> nate(AT)natetech.com
>
> As someone wrote
>
> "Only the leaders ideas are promoted even if they
> are no more up to date as they are getting trailing
> support by few foul mouth it is a vicious circle who fortunately start to
> break
> up..."
>
> The diseases is spreading...GM is collapsing towards a possible
> bankruptcy. Budweiser is now owned by a belguim company. Fannie Mae and
> Freddie Mac are lurking with bankruptcy too. Some post on AMSAT-BB are a
> possible explanation about the root of the disease. When a dog
> feel he's attacked when he's in a dead end with no escape possible he
> bites. His animal survival instinct often make's him appears having
> rabies.
>
> Fun too see how close human's reactions are from the animal world.
>
> Fortunately here some help about the first symptoms
>
> The first symptoms are usually non-specific, flu-like symptoms - fever,
> tiredness, headache that may last for a few days. In the acute
> stage, which quickly follows, an individual exhibits anxiety, confusion,
> insomnia, agitation, hallucinations and hyperactivity (furious
> rabies) or paralysis (dumb rabies). The acute period usually ends after 2
> to 10 days. In both furious and dumb rabies, a complete paralysis
> develops, followed by coma. Death occurs during the first 7 days of
> illness without intensive care.
>
> Please note in our case study:
>
> Our individual also exhibits sign of anxiety, confusion, agitation and
> hallucinations!
>
> As read on another post " I am 80 years old and know that ignoring them
> is the best way to
> treat them, but sometimes they just go too far."
>
> But how to ignore an attacking dog?
>
> My answer is ALWAYS SMILE :)
>
> And here is a short story to ease your tension and blood pressure.
>
> Bush, Putin and Chretien are in hell and they ask the devil if they can
> called their own country. The devil say yes and he show them the
> red phone.
>
> Chretien called first at the end of the call he hang the phone and he
> asked the devil "how much for the call?" The devil say 2 millions.
> Chretien was furious and he ask why? the devil say you are in hell here
> and it is a long distance call.
>
> Putin want's to call home too the devil shout go ahead! At the end of the
> call he also ask "How much" 2 millions the devil said. It is a
> long distance also for me? the devil say YES.
>
> Bush also called home and he asked also how much, the devil say 2$ Bush
> ask why it is so low the devil say it is a local call for you!
>
>
> P.S. There is no connection between any individual and any animal species
> in the above text if you misinterpreted the text please don't
> bite me...
>
>
>
>
> "-"
>
>
> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
> Skype VE2DWE
> www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:35:08 -0000
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg(AT)lcisp.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: <K5GNA(AT)aol.com>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <02ad01c8e759$87434ee0$7301a8c0(AT)oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I was licensed in 1980 and I have been hearing how ham radio is dying for
the past 28 years. So far, it is still here and doing better than ever.
Over these 28 years, this dying hobby that is in danger of losing all of its
frequencies had been given 5 new bands (60m, 30m, 17, 12m, and 33cm) and has
lost small parts of 2 bands (220-222mhz and 1215-1240mhz). We adjusted very
well to those loses.
One reason we may not see as many young hams at hamfests is due to the
internet. Those of us pre-Algore-internet invention hams relied on hamfests
to buy and sell equipment and see new rigs. That is no longer needed as you
have ebay, QTH.COM, eham.net, and QRZ.COM as 24 hour a day hamfests where
you don't have to pay $4 a gallon for gas, plus extra for unhealthy hamfest
food.
They don't appreciate hamfests because they really don't need them as we do.
Also, we have seemed to sink into this mentality that everyone gets licensed
as a kid and stays licensed there entire life. Therefore, if you don't see
many young hams, it means that no one is becoming a ham and we are losing
operators. Untrue! Many people get licensed as a retirement hobby or empty
nest syndrome hobby. These are perfect people to market the hobby to. They
have plenty of disposible income to spend on the hobby and lots of time to
operate.
As someone who was licensed at age 13, there are somethings that suck about
being a young ham. You don't have much money to spend on rigs and antennas.
You live in your parent's house so you are at their mercy for what antennas
you can put up. You have school and homework to compete for your time. You
go to college which greatly limits funds and time, and then you go into the
raising a family (I am there now) which greatly limits funds again, as well
as operating time.
So, I think the hobby is doing just fine. We just need to get over this
obsession that only kids should become new hams. In my area most of the new
licensees are 40 or over, but we are bringing in plenty to replace those who
become SKs.
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message -----
From: <K5GNA(AT)aol.com>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Vanishing Hams
> Hi All,
>
>
> I read the article yesterday that Frank had referred to and forwarded it
to
> a few friends.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I received this URL today. Read number 16.
>
> _http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-things-vanishing-from-america?i_
> (http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-things-vanishing-from-america?i)
> cid=100214839x1205495530x1200282778
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Every time I go to an annual swapfest, the average age of attendees is one
> year older. We need to spend some time reaching out to a younger
generation or
> #16 on the list will come true.
>
> Many years ago, it was in the national interest to have a cadre of
trained
> radio operators. Today, with CB, Cell Phones, cordless phones, FRS,
etc. --
> everyone is a radio operator. Now, military communications is done with a
> keyboard or microphone -- pretty much universal skills now.
>
> As the article mentions, the airwaves are valuable property and we could
> lose them. Although the Amateur Radio Community shines when there is loss
of
> communications during a disaster, with newer technology, even that could
change.
>
> A few years ago at the 2002 AMSAT meeting in Ft. Worth, Tony, AA2TX was
> giving a talk on his antennas made from cardboard boxes and aluminum
foil. There
> was a grade school class in attendance with their teacher. When the talk
> was over, the kids swarmed over the boxes and aluminum foil to make
antennas
> with great enthusiasm. Very inspiring -- this is the kind of reaching
out we
> need.
>
> Instead of our self serving pursuit of DXCC, WAS, VUCC, WAC and others,
> maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for bringing new Hams into the
> community. Otherwise, someday, no one will remember what those letters
even stood for.
>
>
> 73 & TNX,
>
> Bob
> K5GNA
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live
music
> scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
> (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:49:10 -0700
From: Mark Vandewettering <kf6kyi(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is amsat-bb fun for anyone?
To: AMSAT-BB bb <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <58C62CCE-D9F8-4412-861D-784AF77D64B6(AT)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Honestly, I'm completely disgusted with amsat-bb. Is anyone having
any fun at all out there? You people seem resolutely determined to
complain about the current state of amateur satellites, without
provocation, and with no idea of how fix anything. Or even any idea
how to have fun using what few satellites we do have. If someone were
interested in getting into satellite operation on VO-52 or even AO-51,
I'd actively _discourage_ them from joining this cesspool of negativity.
And less the AMSAT-NA think I'm giving them a pass, what the hell is
up with you people? The store, down for months. Consistently out of
date info on the website. Promises that updates will be made via the
Amsat Journal or at conferences. EARTH TO AMSAT BOARD: THIS IS THE
AGE OF THE INTERNET. It isn't good enough to publish summary
information on paper a couple of times a year. People are frustrated
because to all appearances, you aren't being honest with them, and you
certainly aren't being timely.
I even tried joining the namaste-dev list to combat the lack of any
serious, technically relevant development going on, to see if a
skilled programmer like myself could reasonably contribute anything to
the ongoing efforts. I lurked for a month or two, and what I
observed did not thrill me with confidence. I see a group mired in
requirements negotiation, bickering, and in the last few weeks,
completely imploding.
Bleh.
Okay, that's enough complaining. Here is some food for thought:
1. It seems to me that the groundstation development is completely
turned on its head. The goal is to create a ground station design
which is both a) reasonably inexpensive and b) reproducible enough to
be constructed by large numbers of hams. So, begin there by actually
(and this will seem really radical) DESIGNING AND BUILDING SOME
HARDWARE. It seems to me that the majority of the design is actually
software. Software is difficult to design, but has a number of other
offsetting qualities. It's easy to modify and cheap to redistribute,
so it makes some sense to pursue it later. Additionally, it allows
the hardware design to be picked up and extended by others with
parallel interest, gaining momentum from them. Perhaps the TAPR
software defined radio platform with suitable up/down converters is a
good place to start. Or GNU radio. So, let's get those into the
hands of several hundred hams, and start working. Volunteers don't
work well in the abstract in my experience, so let's make the
development process as concrete as possible to get them involved.
Let's work to get costs down. Let's get basic software freely
available under open source. Leverage work from VHF, microwave and
packet groups. If we can't do everything, then let's at least do
something.
2. Milestones. We need tangible milestones. It's far easier to find
the status of Kiwisat (very cool, incidently) than it is for Eagle.
In part this is because the kiwisat team seems to take their
contributors seriously, and likes to keep them informed to keep morale
high and to show progress. What milestones have been passed in the
Eagle design and construction? Can anyone find that out without
knowing somebody personally?
3. We've received notice from AMSAT-DL that they don't have enough
money to launch P3E. Well, how much do they need? How much are they
short? If they are off by 20%, or even 50%, then I suspect
fundraising could conceivably close that gap. If they are off by 80%,
then I think we have to honestly admit that until competition makes
boosts to HEO more economical, we've been priced out of the game for
now. That'd be a tough thing to swallow, but pretending that we are
going to have launch opportunities which do not exist isn't improving
anyone's morale, especially as years go by and nothing gets done.
4. AMSAT needs to find some good volunteers, and importantly, it needs
to reject some bad volunteers. Not everyone who offers to help is
helping. On the other hand, not all criticism is complaining.
Okay, I'm late for my day job. I haven't been licensed for 40 years,
so I still have one.
Mark KF6KYI
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:03:17 -0600
From: "Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL" <vlfiscus(AT)mcn.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20080716104815.00c2d1e8(AT)pop.mcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 03:45 PM 7/15/2008 -0400, "Rick Hambly \(W2GPS\)" <w2gps(AT)cnssys.com>
wrote:
>Luc,
>
>You and Dave are very creative. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you used your
>creativity for something useful and positive? I'm sure there must be
>something you can do that would help the Ham community you obviously care so
>much about.
>
>Rick
>W2GPS
Like passing grids?
KB7ADL
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:03:56 -0000
From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg(AT)lcisp.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Is amsat-bb fun for anyone?
To: "Mark Vandewettering" <kf6kyi(AT)gmail.com>, "AMSAT-BB bb"
<amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <030801c8e75d$8d338dc0$7301a8c0(AT)oemcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Now wait a minute! You just made a negative statement complaining about all
of the negativity!
73s John AA5JG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Vandewettering" <kf6kyi(AT)gmail.com>
To: "AMSAT-BB bb" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Is amsat-bb fun for anyone?
> Honestly, I'm completely disgusted with amsat-bb. Is anyone having
> any fun at all out there? You people seem resolutely determined to
> complain about the current state of amateur satellites, without
> provocation, and with no idea of how fix anything. Or even any idea
> how to have fun using what few satellites we do have. If someone were
> interested in getting into satellite operation on VO-52 or even AO-51,
> I'd actively _discourage_ them from joining this cesspool of negativity.
>
> And less the AMSAT-NA think I'm giving them a pass, what the hell is
> up with you people? The store, down for months. Consistently out of
> date info on the website. Promises that updates will be made via the
> Amsat Journal or at conferences. EARTH TO AMSAT BOARD: THIS IS THE
> AGE OF THE INTERNET. It isn't good enough to publish summary
> information on paper a couple of times a year. People are frustrated
> because to all appearances, you aren't being honest with them, and you
> certainly aren't being timely.
>
> I even tried joining the namaste-dev list to combat the lack of any
> serious, technically relevant development going on, to see if a
> skilled programmer like myself could reasonably contribute anything to
> the ongoing efforts. I lurked for a month or two, and what I
> observed did not thrill me with confidence. I see a group mired in
> requirements negotiation, bickering, and in the last few weeks,
> completely imploding.
>
> Bleh.
>
> Okay, that's enough complaining. Here is some food for thought:
>
> 1. It seems to me that the groundstation development is completely
> turned on its head. The goal is to create a ground station design
> which is both a) reasonably inexpensive and b) reproducible enough to
> be constructed by large numbers of hams. So, begin there by actually
> (and this will seem really radical) DESIGNING AND BUILDING SOME
> HARDWARE. It seems to me that the majority of the design is actually
> software. Software is difficult to design, but has a number of other
> offsetting qualities. It's easy to modify and cheap to redistribute,
> so it makes some sense to pursue it later. Additionally, it allows
> the hardware design to be picked up and extended by others with
> parallel interest, gaining momentum from them. Perhaps the TAPR
> software defined radio platform with suitable up/down converters is a
> good place to start. Or GNU radio. So, let's get those into the
> hands of several hundred hams, and start working. Volunteers don't
> work well in the abstract in my experience, so let's make the
> development process as concrete as possible to get them involved.
> Let's work to get costs down. Let's get basic software freely
> available under open source. Leverage work from VHF, microwave and
> packet groups. If we can't do everything, then let's at least do
> something.
>
> 2. Milestones. We need tangible milestones. It's far easier to find
> the status of Kiwisat (very cool, incidently) than it is for Eagle.
> In part this is because the kiwisat team seems to take their
> contributors seriously, and likes to keep them informed to keep morale
> high and to show progress. What milestones have been passed in the
> Eagle design and construction? Can anyone find that out without
> knowing somebody personally?
>
> 3. We've received notice from AMSAT-DL that they don't have enough
> money to launch P3E. Well, how much do they need? How much are they
> short? If they are off by 20%, or even 50%, then I suspect
> fundraising could conceivably close that gap. If they are off by 80%,
> then I think we have to honestly admit that until competition makes
> boosts to HEO more economical, we've been priced out of the game for
> now. That'd be a tough thing to swallow, but pretending that we are
> going to have launch opportunities which do not exist isn't improving
> anyone's morale, especially as years go by and nothing gets done.
>
> 4. AMSAT needs to find some good volunteers, and importantly, it needs
> to reject some bad volunteers. Not everyone who offers to help is
> helping. On the other hand, not all criticism is complaining.
>
> Okay, I'm late for my day job. I haven't been licensed for 40 years,
> so I still have one.
>
> Mark KF6KYI
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:13:48 -0500
From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <000a01c8e767$4f9ff570$eedfe050$(AT)net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Joe mentioned ...
> I remember quite a surge of fund raising prior to getting AO40 launched
Hams around the world pretty much paid for AO-40 and its ride with private
donations. Its great that everyone dug in and met the funding goal - thank
you! I had fun for a short time on AO-40, getting a station nearly going
near the end.
AO-40 seems to have been one of the last subsidized/discounted launch
opportunities. Getting to orbit with the real price quotes we get in today's
space-as-a-business-model, we seem to hear $6 Million with a straight face
from the launching agency.
A few things may be going on here:
1. The launch agency is telling us to go away knowing there is little
likelihood of a bunch of hams coming back with $6 Million.
2. Amateur radio isn't making a good enough business case to fit into the
space-as-a-business-model when we propose we're flying a radio for
a bunch of guys to yack on. Oh, emergency? Well you see, if enough
of the guys are available on the weekend we might help. School?
Sure, if they have an antenna and some kids got their license.
I'd guess we need to fix #2 so we can go back with $6 Million to fix #1. It
has been said several times: There is not much chance amateur radio
operators will raise that $6 Million with bake sales, car washes, private
wallets (wouldn't it be excellent to have a wallet like that!).
To fit into today's space business environment AMSAT needs to create a
mission that excites potential funding sources. Emergency Management is
excited by the possibility of many-hours or 24 hour access to a satellite
supporting emergency communications. Schools are excited at the prospect of
student access to space with perhaps hours-long access to an experiment on
ISS with TDRSS-like functionality instead of a 10 minute QSO with an
astronaut.
Once we've made a business-case for our mission and a funding/grant source
has agreed we'll be on our way. Yes, deliver the promised mission ... and
in the meantime we'll be keeping those transponders warmed up ... we get to
yack but you can't say that in a grant request.
> Those who wish to continue to have philosophical disagreements on the
> Eagle design concept and process are welcome to do so.
It's just my observation, but a lot of the philosophical discussion is
trying to find a way to build a mission ... not just a satellite. The
overall mission includes paying for the satellite we want to yack on.
--
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm(AT)amsat.org
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:34:59 -0500
From: <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org, JoAnne Maenpaa <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080716123459.MBJWM.179446.root(AT)Web03>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
JoAnne:
For the most part, I agree with your analysis. But it's not like were in a
space race with the USSR, what could possibly be wrong with making the HEO
effort an international undertaking with maximum resources focused on a single
goal. Based on your comments, PE3 dosen't stand a chance of getting off the
ground unless the Europeans have some political leverage which they may have.
Has anyone from AMSAT-NA asked them? Eagle is so complex and bogged down that
I honestly don't see it going anywhere soon. The outlook for HEO is very
grim, unless we pool resources (both financial and intellictual) set some
milestones and manage to those.
Regards,
- Joe
---- JoAnne Maenpaa <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net> wrote:
> Joe mentioned ...
> > I remember quite a surge of fund raising prior to getting AO40 launched
>
> Hams around the world pretty much paid for AO-40 and its ride with private
> donations. Its great that everyone dug in and met the funding goal - thank
> you! I had fun for a short time on AO-40, getting a station nearly going
> near the end.
>
> AO-40 seems to have been one of the last subsidized/discounted launch
> opportunities. Getting to orbit with the real price quotes we get in today's
> space-as-a-business-model, we seem to hear $6 Million with a straight face
> from the launching agency.
> A few things may be going on here:
>
> 1. The launch agency is telling us to go away knowing there is little
> likelihood of a bunch of hams coming back with $6 Million.
>
> 2. Amateur radio isn't making a good enough business case to fit into the
> space-as-a-business-model when we propose we're flying a radio for
> a bunch of guys to yack on. Oh, emergency? Well you see, if enough
> of the guys are available on the weekend we might help. School?
> Sure, if they have an antenna and some kids got their license.
>
> I'd guess we need to fix #2 so we can go back with $6 Million to fix #1. It
> has been said several times: There is not much chance amateur radio
> operators will raise that $6 Million with bake sales, car washes, private
> wallets (wouldn't it be excellent to have a wallet like that!).
>
> To fit into today's space business environment AMSAT needs to create a
> mission that excites potential funding sources. Emergency Management is
> excited by the possibility of many-hours or 24 hour access to a satellite
> supporting emergency communications. Schools are excited at the prospect of
> student access to space with perhaps hours-long access to an experiment on
> ISS with TDRSS-like functionality instead of a 10 minute QSO with an
> astronaut.
>
> Once we've made a business-case for our mission and a funding/grant source
> has agreed we'll be on our way. Yes, deliver the promised mission ... and
> in the meantime we'll be keeping those transponders warmed up ... we get to
> yack but you can't say that in a grant request.
>
> > Those who wish to continue to have philosophical disagreements on the
> > Eagle design concept and process are welcome to do so.
>
> It's just my observation, but a lot of the philosophical discussion is
> trying to find a way to build a mission ... not just a satellite. The
> overall mission includes paying for the satellite we want to yack on.
>
> --
> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
> k9jkm(AT)amsat.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:05:38 -0700
From: Mark VandeWettering <kf6kyi(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Is amsat-bb fun for anyone?
To: John Geiger <aa5jg(AT)lcisp.com>
Cc: AMSAT-BB bb <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Message-ID: <487E2A62.7060305(AT)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
John Geiger wrote:
> Now wait a minute! You just made a negative statement complaining about all
> of the negativity!
>
> 73s John AA5JG
>
I'm totally open for any comments about how I can make a positive
statement about all the negativity. Is there some benefit that
negativity serves that I'm not seeing?
Mark KF6KYI
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:46:43 -0700
From: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amsat-BB
To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <008501c8e76b$ededa2f0$f08764d0(AT)TNTCENTER>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
As of 06/08 the ham population in the US is 658,711, 05/08 - 658,272
In 1970 it was ~ 280,000
In 1980 it was ~ 390,000
In 1990 it was ~ 485,000
In 2000 it was ~ 682,240
That sure looks "way bigger" to me! Maybe not to you. But I can say based
on the statistics that the last couple of years has seen an overall increase
in the ham population in the US. The peak was 2003 at 687,860 and that
figure is what the author of the original article used. I still haven't
figured out where he came up with a decrease of 50,000 and even he admits he
got the figures wrong in the comments following the main article.
With all due respect sir your figures are way off!
See http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=13872
For more statistics from 1999 to current.
73,
Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>
The ham population in the USA is ~ 800,000 + . Those figures are taken from
the Federal Communications Commission data.
[snip]
But to say : " the ham ranks are way bigger" is, in my opinion
not accurate from an American view point. You might think that the codeless
license would have made a big difference. It did not. I often kid some of my
friends with the statement that there are only two modes : CB and CW. Of
course CW is the oldest digital mode. I believe that the USA ham ranks
peaked about a decade or two ago.
Jim W9VNE
on the air since 1952
>> now!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Brown (HB9DRV)" <simon(AT)hb9drv.ch>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Amsat-BB
> From: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter(AT)gmail.com>
>
>>
>> 2. Compared to 10, 20, and 30 years ago, the ham ranks are way bigger
>> now!!!
>>
>
> And older - much older. Older means richer, just look at the radios we're
> buying and stations we're building these days.
>
> Anyway, it would take one wealthy Ham to leave his estate to AMSAT DL to
> be used to launch P3E in his memory. Any volunteers on the list?
>
> Simon 'Not Dead Yet' HB9DRV
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 349
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