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CX2SA > SATDIG 17.07.08 00:47l 266 Lines 10509 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 080716/2246Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:18479 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:18479_CX2SA
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: AMSAT NA (D. Mynatt)
2. Re: AMSAT NA (JoAnne Maenpaa)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:06:25 -0600
From: "D. Mynatt" <dave(AT)mynatt.biz>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>, <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>, "JoAnne Maenpaa"
<k9jkm(AT)comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6FAD9F7181ED41C293376ABBB22C5671(AT)compaq>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Group: The conversation about what to do to expand AMSAT membership and
how they and other volunteer groups (local and national) can become more
relevant has touched a chord with me because the arguments being advanced
here are the same concerns affecting every volunteer organization. It's
impossible to see how luxury hobbies like ours can be sustained when in so
many parts of our own country poverty is a daily issue. Entire portions of
our society have gone asunder and the fabric of science has been rent by
several influences, mostly but not only that inane cell phone conversations
by children have replaced scientific curiosity as a civilization. Money that
goes to feed folks competes with funds to educate the unwilling.
As in every group, a core cadre does the work, has the interest and provides
the energy while the rest sometimes provide distraction and express
frustration at the lack of progress. But the term volunteer implies
non-funded. Expectations in a volunteer organization are goals with no
financial plan to achieve them except donations.
We could probably debate that long and hard and exhaust ourselves getting
nowhere and ending up with no solutions; maybe because solutions no longer
exist where options outweigh responsibilities, obligations and interest. And
then again maybe not, but in a society that has more opinions than resources
things do seem to keep falling by the side.
Given that, I propose that AMSAT become energetically affiliated with and
supportive of an ongoing satellite plan, the American Student Moon Orbiter
(http://asmo.arc.nasa.gov/ ) (ASMO) program. We can work with our European
bothers and get ourselves involved in the European counterpart, ESMO with
ASMO thus making a real global effort. The idea being that resources would
be more available if the audience is bigger. This type of program
affiliation would strengthen the core of AMSAT and other like-minded groups,
build or renew a relationship with colleges and the local ham/AMSAT club
outreach programs (if any exist) and establish AMSAT as a vigorous
participant in the satellite program.
I would ask that AMSAT governance look at this possibility and respond to
the RFI (Request for Information). The RFI is out for comment and it is
right up our alley. See: http://asmo.arc.nasa.gov/asmo_docs .
This could re-energize us, our hobby, our clubs and our people. We have
everything they need and they have what we want.
Thanks. That's the end of my rant for today.
Dave Mynatt
Program Director
========================
http://sciencecenter.no-ip.org
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DM78
----- Original Message -----
From: <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>; "JoAnne Maenpaa" <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:34 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
> JoAnne:
> For the most part, I agree with your analysis. But it's not like were in a
> space race with the USSR, what could possibly be wrong with making the HEO
> effort an international undertaking with maximum resources focused on a
> single goal. Based on your comments, PE3 dosen't stand a chance of
> getting off the ground unless the Europeans have some political leverage
> which they may have. Has anyone from AMSAT-NA asked them? Eagle is so
> complex and bogged down that I honestly don't see it going anywhere soon.
> The outlook for HEO is very grim, unless we pool resources (both financial
> and intellictual) set some milestones and manage to those.
>
> Regards,
> - Joe
>
>
> ---- JoAnne Maenpaa <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net> wrote:
>> Joe mentioned ...
>> > I remember quite a surge of fund raising prior to getting AO40 launched
>>
>> Hams around the world pretty much paid for AO-40 and its ride with
>> private
>> donations. Its great that everyone dug in and met the funding goal -
>> thank
>> you! I had fun for a short time on AO-40, getting a station nearly going
>> near the end.
>>
>> AO-40 seems to have been one of the last subsidized/discounted launch
>> opportunities. Getting to orbit with the real price quotes we get in
>> today's
>> space-as-a-business-model, we seem to hear $6 Million with a straight
>> face
>> from the launching agency.
>> A few things may be going on here:
>>
>> 1. The launch agency is telling us to go away knowing there is little
>> likelihood of a bunch of hams coming back with $6 Million.
>>
>> 2. Amateur radio isn't making a good enough business case to fit into the
>> space-as-a-business-model when we propose we're flying a radio for
>> a bunch of guys to yack on. Oh, emergency? Well you see, if enough
>> of the guys are available on the weekend we might help. School?
>> Sure, if they have an antenna and some kids got their license.
>>
>> I'd guess we need to fix #2 so we can go back with $6 Million to fix #1.
>> It
>> has been said several times: There is not much chance amateur radio
>> operators will raise that $6 Million with bake sales, car washes, private
>> wallets (wouldn't it be excellent to have a wallet like that!).
>>
>> To fit into today's space business environment AMSAT needs to create a
>> mission that excites potential funding sources. Emergency Management is
>> excited by the possibility of many-hours or 24 hour access to a satellite
>> supporting emergency communications. Schools are excited at the prospect
>> of
>> student access to space with perhaps hours-long access to an experiment
>> on
>> ISS with TDRSS-like functionality instead of a 10 minute QSO with an
>> astronaut.
>>
>> Once we've made a business-case for our mission and a funding/grant
>> source
>> has agreed we'll be on our way. Yes, deliver the promised mission ...
>> and
>> in the meantime we'll be keeping those transponders warmed up ... we get
>> to
>> yack but you can't say that in a grant request.
>>
>> > Those who wish to continue to have philosophical disagreements on the
>> > Eagle design concept and process are welcome to do so.
>>
>> It's just my observation, but a lot of the philosophical discussion is
>> trying to find a way to build a mission ... not just a satellite. The
>> overall mission includes paying for the satellite we want to yack on.
>>
>> --
>> 73 de JoAnne K9JKM
>> k9jkm(AT)amsat.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:17:52 -0500
From: "JoAnne Maenpaa" <k9jkm(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c8e770$43e84cb0$cbb8e610$(AT)net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Joe,
> ... what could possibly be wrong with making the HEO effort
> an international undertaking with maximum resources focused
> on a single goal.
Perhaps its not as grim as it appears via the messages on the -bb. Here is an
excerpt from a headline news item that was on the front page of
http://www.amsat.org. It has been replaced by more current items, but AMSAT-
NA, AMSAT-UK, and AMSAT-DL have a significant team effort going for P3E -
including cash funding:
--
AMSAT Groups Make Donation to AMSAT-DL to Facilitate Completion of P3E
Satellite
Following a meeting between representatives of the AMSAT groups from North
America (AMSAT-NA), The United Kingdom (AMSAT-UK), and Germany (AMSAT-DL), a
decision has been made by AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK to donate a total of 40,000
Euros to AMSAT-DL for the purpose of funding the continued operation of the
"Zentrales Entwicklungslabor for Electronik", (Central Development Lab for
Electronics, aka "The ZEL").
--
Still 40,000 Euros or anything in wallets our size doesn't come too close to
that $6 Million! This was also covered in the ANS news bulletins and in the
AMSAT Journal when the story was new. Unfortunately amsat-bb by itself can be
misleading sometimes.
AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-DL share common modules such as the CanDo! bus interface,
housekeeping computer, HELAPS power amplifier. G6LVB wrote the SDR software
for P3E so it is already a significant international effort.
> Based on your comments, PE3 doesn't stand a chance of getting off
> the ground unless the Europeans have some political leverage which
> they may have. Has anyone from AMSAT-NA asked them?
The cost of launching P3E was mentioned by AMSAT-DL at the Friedrichshafen Ham
Radio 2008 convention at the end of June (Bulletin ANS-188.01). What I heard
verbally at the 2007 AMSAT Symposium in Pittsburgh was that the rideshare
opportunity being investigated with Intelsat is not only limited to AMSAT-NA.
Intelsat has said they will drop off rideshare satellites compatible with
their primary mission (business-case) into LEO, Geosync-Transfer-Orbit (our
HEO), or geosynchronous orbit. Depending how high you wish their taxi-service
to take you the price varies between $2M and $6M. This includes P3E and
Eagle/Phase IV.
Again, a launch of a radio for a bunch of fellas to yack on no longer seems to
be a valid business case!
--
73 de JoAnne K9JKM
k9jkm(AT)amsat.org
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 350
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