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To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Vanishing Hams (Robert Bruninga)
2. Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 349 (Darin Cowan)
3. Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! (Steve Meuse)
4. [Very Offtopic] Re: Vanishing Hams (Ben Jackson)
5. Re: AMSAT NA (G0MRF(AT)aol.com)
6. Doppler Frequency Device Control (Luciano G Nachif)
7. Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! (Daniel Schultz)
8. AMSAT-UK Colloquium - UK MoonLITE Mission (Trevor)
9. Vanishing hams and an after thought about young hams and sats
(Michael Tondee)
10. Re: AMSAT NA and finding a ride into orbit (John B. Stephensen)
11. Re: Vanishing Hams (Tony Langdon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:03:21 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: <K5GNA(AT)aol.com>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <0D58B640DD214204AE874960D6C2F826(AT)ewlab.usna.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Today, with CB, Cell Phones, cordless phones, FRS, etc. --
> everyone is a radio operator. Now, military communications
> is done with a keyboard or microphone -- pretty much
> universal skills now.
Do not overlook how kids use key-pad text-messaging as the
greatest revolution in communications of all time... Even some
old-fud adults are learning how to use it..
Then consider that APRS has had global text-messaging (and
email) via the keypad of the D7 and D700 radios for over 10
years now, yet how many old-fuds ever even considered using it
or introduced this exciting new capability to their kids?
You can even send text-messages or emails from your HT or Radio
from anywhere on earth via any of the APRS satellites (ISS,
GO-32, PCSAT-1, etc)... We even suggested that everyone should
learn how to do this and exercise it during
Satellite-Simulated-Emergency-Tests. You can even use any old
TNC and any old radio to do this. See:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/sset.html
> Although the Amateur Radio Community shines when
> there is loss of communications during a disaster,
> with newer technology, even that could change.
What is hard in ham radio is "change". We basically have to
wait for some ops to die in order for some new things to be
tried and to take hold...
> Maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for bringing
> new Hams into the community. Otherwise, someday, no
> one will remember what those letters even stood for.
A good start might be to sponsor an award for old fuds that try
something new...
And then show it to a kid... <wink>
P.S. Only about 2% of ham radio operators use APRS, and
probably only 10% of them (0.2% of all hams) have tried this
global text messaging (or email) feature. Yet, even 10 years
ago, and ahead of its time we had it in Ham Radio!
>From an old fud..
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:56:04 -0400
From: "Darin Cowan" <yet.another.squid(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 349
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <00F85885A14E45EF813A8D2C8C76F92C(AT)SQUID>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>A few years ago at the 2002 AMSAT meeting in Ft. Worth, Tony,
>>AA2TX was giving a talk on his antennas made from cardboard
>>boxes and aluminum foil. There was a grade school class in
>>attendance with their teacher. When the talk was over, the
>>kids swarmed over the boxes and aluminum foil to make
>>antennas with great enthusiasm. Very inspiring -- this is
>>the kind of reaching out we need.
>>
>>Instead of our self serving pursuit of DXCC, WAS, VUCC, WAC
>>and others, maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for
>>bringing new Hams into the community. Otherwise, someday,
>>no one will remember what those letters even stood for.
Believe me, at 43 years old, I'm acutely aware of two facts:
1. I'm relatively young for a radio amateur; and
2. I'm not exactly young.
Amateur radio has a few things going against it as far as "young"
people are concerned, and some of these things cannot be easily
solved by regulation changes, mentoring, etc.
First and foremost is that amateur radio is a technical hobby and
is consequently viewed by young people (hereafter taken to mean
"people under 25") as nerdy, uncool, etc. I say with some
confidence that very few people who currently hold amateur radio
licences were members of the popular crowd in high school or
university. Is that silly? Perhaps... but it's also true.
Young people have a lot of demands on their time, and being "cool"
is as important now as it ever was, maybe more so. The result
is that amateur radio is going to appeal to a comparatively small
number of young people from the get-go. I am not sure how or
if this perception can be overcome.
Second, advancing technology makes the hobby less useful than it
once was. If you wanted to chat with people in far away lands
back in 1979 (when I first started SWL), then amateur radio was
probably just about the only way to do it. If you want to do that
today, you need only download any of a multitude of simple computer
programs and have at it, with no technical skill, no licence and
little or no cost. People getting into amateur radio now will
be doing it, in my opinion, purely for a love of radio or tinkering
rather than what I perceive to have been a large palette of reasons
in decades gone by. This issue can probably be overcome by raising
the profile of amateur radio as a hobby with a modern flavour.
Certainly amateur radio satellite and keyboarding modes for amateur
radio help out a lot. No offence to morse code afficiondos, but
the vast majority of the kids I see (I volunteer at the Canada
Science and Tech museum) think of morse code as a quaint reminder
of days past... interesting only as far as "yeah, my grampa used to
do that, neat" but not interesting enough to be something they'd want
to do. Every time someone tries to raise the importance
of morse code in amateur radio, I guarantee it scares away another
potential young licencee who sees amateur radio as old-fashioned
and backward. On the other hand, get a kid talking on a satellite
to someone across the continent (or ocean, from here) and they'll
remember that for a LONG time. Get a kid chatting with
someone around the world by keyboard using Olivia or PSK31 and they
can relate instantly because they're used to instant messaging.
Seriously, as radio amateurs we should really downplay morse code
outside our licenced ranks. People who want to keep code alive
will do so, but very few people are attracted to this hobby by
morse code and I believe a great many people are repelled by a
perception that if you can't do code, you're not a "real" radio
amateur.
Third, and this also can't be overcome by mentoring etc., is that
amateur radio has space and financial requirements that are beyond
most young people. Everyone on this list go look at your stuff
right now and add up what it cost in terms of currency as well as
indoor and outdoor space. Sure, you *CAN* get into amateur radio
with a used 2m HT picked up in Dayton for $100. But let's face it
the really cool stuff requires more sophisticated (read: expensive)
equipment, usually with antenna systems that require space and
more money. When you're a teen or a young person just starting
a family, it's a discretionary expense that is probably just not
high on your list. Only when you've started to get a few grey hairs
(if you have any hairs left) is it likely you'll be in a comfortable
position to invest in the "good" stuff. This is the reason, in my
opinion, that radio amateurs largely seem to be no younger than about
35 or so. It simply takes that long to get in a position to really
pursue parts of this hobby.
That's my spin on it. And I'll be back in the museum on Saturday
showing off amateur radio satellites to the kids :)
73 de VE3OIJ
Darin
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:12:00 -0400
From: Steve Meuse <smeuse(AT)mara.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
To: Dave Guimont <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org
Message-ID: <20080716201200.GA26570(AT)mara.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dave Guimont expunged (dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com):
> David, you've hit it on the nose....
I don't know why I haven't done this sooner....
PLONK!
:0
* ^rom: dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com
/dev/null
-Steve
N1JFU
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:16:31 -0400
From: Ben Jackson <bbj(AT)innismir.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] [Very Offtopic] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu
Cc: K5GNA(AT)aol.com, amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487E571F.7020702(AT)innismir.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Robert Bruninga wrote:
|> Today, with CB, Cell Phones, cordless phones, FRS, etc. --
|> everyone is a radio operator. Now, military communications
|> is done with a keyboard or microphone -- pretty much
|> universal skills now.
|
| Do not overlook how kids use key-pad text-messaging as the
| greatest revolution in communications of all time... Even some
| old-fud adults are learning how to use it..
|
| Then consider that APRS has had global text-messaging (and
| email) via the keypad of the D7 and D700 radios for over 10
| years now, yet how many old-fuds ever even considered using it
| or introduced this exciting new capability to their kids?
Bob:
I have to say, comparing SMS to APRS text messages is like comparing a
Formula Race Car to a 1963 Opel Kadett ("I shall call him Oliver!").
While they both have four wheels and an engine, one is flashy, lightning
quick, and coolness, the other, while sturdy and resilient, has as much
coolness as a bunch of sardines.
| You can even send text-messages or emails from your HT or Radio
| from anywhere on earth via any of the APRS satellites (ISS,
| GO-32, PCSAT-1, etc)... We even suggested that everyone should
| learn how to do this and exercise it during
| Satellite-Simulated-Emergency-Tests. You can even use any old
| TNC and any old radio to do this. See:
| http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/sset.html
While Ham Ops are busily tuning for doppler and holding an arrow to send
a text message over a satellite, the children who are watching will
likely be whipping out their iPhones and sending movies to their friends
over the cell network. If we are trying to show off "text messaging" we
have already lost before we try to market it.
I think the main issue here is that people don't want something that
re-creates something that people already have. We should be trying to
market ourselves to people who need us. One of the things that people
here on -bb constantly complain is the use of Amateur radio for
satellite down links. While people seem to bemoaning this, IMNSHO this
is exactly what we should be doing "Hey, I see you have an issue with X,
perhaps I might recommend Amateur Radio for that? It's quite easy to get
your license!"
Plant the seed, tend it, and hopefully everyone will reap the benefits.
|> Although the Amateur Radio Community shines when
|> there is loss of communications during a disaster,
|> with newer technology, even that could change.
|
| What is hard in ham radio is "change".
100% Right on the money.
|> Maybe the ARRL needs to sponsor an award for bringing
|> new Hams into the community. Otherwise, someday, no
|> one will remember what those letters even stood for.
|
| A good start might be to sponsor an award for old fuds that try
| something new...
| And then show it to a kid... <wink>
ARRL should first take a real hard look at where the hobby is and how it
can fit into the 21st century. Sadly, the world is moving at quite an
advanced pace and very few people in the hobby see the need to keep the
hobby pushing ahead. We're starting to become little more then an
anachronism.
| P.S. Only about 2% of ham radio operators use APRS, and
| probably only 10% of them (0.2% of all hams) have tried this
| global text messaging (or email) feature. Yet, even 10 years
| ago, and ahead of its time we had it in Ham Radio!
APRS is not the be, all, end all of Amateur radio. Nor is it the silver
bullet to cure all that ails us. 10 years ago texting was quite
prevalent, just not in the US. Plus, the capabilities of the APRS system
have hardly evolved to keep up with the current data capabilities of
consumer electronics. APRS is a niche market same as satellite
operation, RDF, and HomeBrewing.
- --
Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA
bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:21:37 EDT
From: G0MRF(AT)aol.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net, amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <c1c.3e21a7ee.35afb251(AT)aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 16/07/2008 06:31:11 GMT Standard Time,
kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net
writes:
AMSAT-NA personnel issue, but aren't concerned
that AMSAT-DL announced that they can't pay for the P3E launch.
===================================================
No, the quote is that they can not afford the price given by Arianespace.
That is not the same thing. You are exagerating the facts (again)
David G0MRF
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:38:50 -0400
From: "Luciano G Nachif" <nachif(AT)terra.com.br>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Doppler Frequency Device Control
To: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <K449CQ$D850D40D5C5ECA21ABDFD2106750C763(AT)multidominios>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi guys,
If I'm not mistaken, several years ago, I read an article which shows how to
build an electronic device to run a pair of Yaesu, Kenwood or Icom VHF/UHF
rigs to compensate for doppler effect on inverting or non inverting
transponders.
Could anyone guide me back to that, please?
I thank you in advance.
73,
Luciano PT9KK
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:02:45 -0400
From: "Daniel Schultz" <n8fgv(AT)usa.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <019mgPVBt3782S28.1216242165(AT)cmsweb28.cms.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Amsat is not a for-profit corporation with employees who take orders and
follow directions from management. Amsat's management cannot order anyone to
do anything. It is an all volunteer organization and an ego stroke is the only
reward that people get for their hard work. It has always been well known that
this sort of environment attracts the Type-A prima donnas
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_donna ->"the term often signifies a vain,
obnoxious and temperamental person who, although irritating, cannot be done
without.") In a room full of such people, arguments and fights are not
uncommon. It has always been this way in Amsat, but perhaps the rapid
communications of the internet makes it more apparent now than it was in the
past. This too will pass.
As a volunteer organization, Amsat depends on people like you to step forward
and do what needs to be done. If you think you can do a better job, then step
up to the plate and do it. If you don't like the web site or the online store
then come forward and build a better one. If you think you can run the
organization better than the current management then run for elected office.
If you do none of these things, at least stop complaining about the people who
do.
If you think P3E is the way to go, you are free to send your money to Amsat DL
to fund P3E. (http://www.p3e-satellite.org/index.pl?lang=en_EN )
Do one of three things: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.
Dan Schultz N8FGV
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:19:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: Trevor <m5aka(AT)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT-UK Colloquium - UK MoonLITE Mission
To: AMSAT BB <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <649898.82266.qm(AT)web27203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Dr Rob Gowen will give the keynote speech "Science Penetrators for the UK
MoonLITE mission" at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium.
The 23rd AMSAT-UK International Space Colloquium will be held at the
University of Surrey, Guildford, England from Friday 25th until Sunday 27th
July.
Dr Rob Gowen, Department of Space & Climate Physics (Mullard Space Science
Laboratory, University College London and Coordinator of the UK Lunar
Penetrator Consortium) will give the keynote speech on "Science Penetrators
for the UK MoonLITE mission".
MoonLITE will be the first ever UK lunar mission. The presentation by Dr Rob
Gowen takes place at 2:30 pm on Friday 25th July in the University of Surrey
Management Building lecture theatre.
The Colloquium is open to all Radio Amateurs and SWL's. Either day passes or
full packages comprising overnight accommodation and meals are available. An
online booking service is available with PayPal, Visa and Master Card payments
accepted.
For further details see http://www.uk.amsat.org/Colloquium/
A site map showing location of the Management Building and the adjacent main
car park and conference visitors parking can be seen at
http://www.uk.amsat.org/images/stories/uosmap6.jpg
Travel information: http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/23/52/
AMSAT-UK Tel: +44 (0)1258 453959
Email: g3wgm(AT)amsat.org
----
Missile practice for Moon mission
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7438270.stm
Britain's Moon shot takes shape
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7433074.stm
73 Trevor M5AKA
----
__________________________________________________________
Not happy with your email address?.
Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at
Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:46:50 -0400
From: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Vanishing hams and an after thought about young
hams and sats
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <017301c8e78d$7483aa50$6500a8c0(AT)w4hij1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I always read with great interest when I see references to "the graying of
the hobby" .When we start to talk about old hams I always wonder whose
definition of old we are using. I'm 45 and I certainly don't consider myself
old. I see a lot of hams my age or thereabouts at hamfest and in QST and
AMSAT journal pics etc. etc.. I once worked in the retail end of amateur
radio and I saw a lot of hams anywhere between 30 and 50 coming in and out
of the store everyday. I also saw the stereotypical old gray haired fellas
who always looked as grouchy and unhappy as they seemed. ( Funny, somehow I
envision Dave G. this way. ;-) ) I guess what I'm getting at is that it's
all a matter of perspective. To a teenager I guess I'm what Bob calls an old
fud. To me an old Fud is one of you 65 or 70 year old retired fellas. And
no, I don't think you are all old grouchy and unhappy, just some of you.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Just as an afterthought about the FM sats that always seem to draw so much
ire and drawing youth into the hobby.
Say you have a young person who shows interest in the hobby, specifically
satellites.Which way do you think you might have more success getting the
kid motivated to get his license, show them a comparetively inexpensive Dual
band HT and an Arrow antenna that is more than likely to be finacially
achievable for him/her and let them listen to grid square exchanges or maybe
witness the magic of APRS?
Or, show them your super duper decked out sat station complete with
switchable CP antennas and the latest an greatest DC to daylight rig plus
your sophisticated AZ/El tracking system that, while really impressive and
beautiful, is going to seem impossible to obtain for them? Then use the
station with all it's technical wizardry to let them listen to some fella
spend the entire pass of the SSB/CW satellite yakking about his impending
hernia operation....... Think about it.....
Michael
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:54:43 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA and finding a ride into orbit
To: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>, "Michael Tondee"
<mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>, "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>,
<amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <009601c8e78e$8ee42db0$0201a8c0(AT)your6bvpxyztoq>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
At this point, I don't see any way to determine which AMSAT group will be
able to get a satellite into space first.
AMSAT-DL has been going with launching a complete satellite and trying to
find some discounted space to put it in. However, there is no longer a hope
of a discount. AMSAT-NA had the same problem but are trying to address it by
purchasing space in another satellite. When building the complete satellite
you have a much larger engineering program and more risk. Building
transponders for inclusion within another satellite means less work and less
risk but you have to accept the orbit provided by the host.
Its good that both approaches are being persued. The AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-NA
organizations have good relations with each other and assist each other with
money and volunteers. Hobbling one organization is likely to cut the chances
of a near-term HEO by factor of 2.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>
To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>; "Michael Tondee"
<mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>;
<amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 05:47 UTC
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
> John:
> I suppose I should have been clearer, (tough crowd) I was including the
> Launch Cost.
> Which project do you think could realistically get of the ground first
> Eagle or PE3?
> This isn't about complaining, I'm simply suggesting a possible path to get
> an HEO operational ASAP.
>
> I remember quite a surge of fund raising prior to getting AO40 launched,
> with concrete targets
>
> My fundamental argument remains the same. Pool global resources, determine
> what the delta is and inform the community. Focus on a single project,
> get one HEO bird operational , starting with the satellite that is closest
> to completion. Those who wish to continue to
> have philosophical disagreements on the Eagle design concept and process
> are welcome to do so..
>
> Regards,
> - Joe K7ZT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
> To: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>; "Michael Tondee"
> <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>;
> <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>
>
>> The key is getting space on a launch vehicle, not completing some
>> hardware that is a tiny fraction of the cost. It's interesting that
>> people are complaining about an internal AMSAT-NA personnel issue, but
>> aren't concerned that AMSAT-DL announced that they can't pay for the P3E
>> launch.
>>
>> I've managed several engineering groups in the computer industry and have
>> had people call me up while I was eating Thankgiving dinner and resign.
>> On Monday everything was resolved.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> John
>> KD6OZH
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Westbrook" <k7zt(AT)suddenlink.net>
>> To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>; "Michael Tondee"
>> <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>;
>> <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 03:19 UTC
>> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>
>>
>>>I fully expect to receive incoming slings and arrows for my input, and I
>>>do understand for those who get their egos fed by leading/participating
>>>in the design process for AMSAT-NA won't like this idea, but hey who is
>>>AMSAT here to serve anyway?
>>>
>>> Generally, the following conditions seem to exist at this time (please
>>> feel free to correct me if any of my observations are inaccurate):
>>>
>>> 1. We don't seem to be within a stones throw of getting Eagle off the
>>> ground
>>> 2. Engineering resources in disarray
>>> 3. No Lab
>>> 4. Most folks who participate really want to see a HEO up as soon as
>>> humanly possible
>>> 5. The cost to put an HEO into orbit seems to be prohibitive for any
>>> single organization to pull off without deep pocket sponsorship
>>> 6. AMSAT-DL Has an HEO that is nearing completion
>>>
>>> Given the extent that these circumstances are close to reality, why on
>>> earth wouldn't we consider transferring the sum total of Eagle resources
>>> (with membership approval of course) to AMSAT-DL, for the purpose of
>>> completing PE3?
>>>
>>> Next step would be to determine the exact the cost and a launch
>>> opportunity. Let the Ham Satellite Community know what those cost are
>>> and then raise the additional funds toward that single goal.
>>>
>>> Following the final launch and commissioning of PE3, then move on to
>>> getting Eagle back on track.
>>>
>>> I definitely could get behind that sort of concrete effort. What we
>>> have now seems to be a bit of a distant dream.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> - Joe, K7ZT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
>>> To: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>; "Jim Danehy"
>>> <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>; <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:29 PM
>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>>
>>>
>>>> What most HEO users never fully realized (including me) was that they
>>>> were
>>>> the recipients of charity. Now that launches are commercial operations,
>>>> the
>>>> AMSATs have to pay the same as everyone else and HEOs are vastly more
>>>> expensive than LEOs. The energy requirements are much larger and you
>>>> can't
>>>> just use a surplus SS-18 as a launch vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> KD6OZH
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>
>>>> To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>; <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 22:34 UTC
>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's been going on since I got here a couple of years ago Jim. For
>>>>> sure,
>>>>> everyone is anxious to see an HEO launched but some people feel the
>>>>> need
>>>>> to
>>>>> get online and constantly whine about why we don't have one. I think
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a few folks on here that need to get a dictionary and look up the
>>>>> word
>>>>> "volunteer".
>>>>> People better start to realize that there are no guarantees. I would
>>>>> say
>>>>> that at the current rate of apparent progress that the AMSAT NA
>>>>> mission
>>>>> statement looks all wet. Prospects don't seem to be much better on P3E
>>>>> either. What good will it do to have a fully built satellite without
>>>>> the
>>>>> funds to launch it?
>>>>> I just try to enjoy what we've got up there and hope for the best in
>>>>> the
>>>>> future. In the end that's all we can really do isn't it? All the
>>>>> whining
>>>>> in
>>>>> the world and the backhanded comments about AO-51 and the other FM
>>>>> sats
>>>>> aren't going to get the HEO birds up there any faster.
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Michael W4HIJ
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy(AT)cinci.rr.com>
>>>>> To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:27 PM
>>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT NA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have been off the satellites for 25 years. I just spent a bunch of
>>>>>>money
>>>>>>for antennas and rotors to get back on. After listening to all of the
>>>>>>belly
>>>>>>aching I wonder if I should join AMSAT (again). Maybe I should try EME
>>>>>>. .
>>>>>>. . the moon will be there long after I am gone. I have listened on
>>>>>>AO 7
>>>>>>and VO 52 to test my 2 mtr yagis. I should be QRV soon. Belly aching
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>looks bad even if it is warranted. I am not sure if it accomplishes
>>>>>>much
>>>>>>other than venting for the vanquished. Human nature ugh. Lighten up
>>>>>>folks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim W9VNE
>>>>>> Cincinnati, Ohio em79
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
>>>>> author.
>>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
>>>> author.
>>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>> program!
>>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:58:59 +1000
From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu, <K5GNA(AT)aol.com>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <487e6f25.2a528c0a.34c1.7043(AT)mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 05:03 AM 7/17/2008, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Do not overlook how kids use key-pad text-messaging as the
>greatest revolution in communications of all time... Even some
>old-fud adults are learning how to use it..
I've been a text user for many years on the phone. It arrived here
around 10 years ago, though it wasn't readily accessible until around
2001 when the phone networks started opening up the service for general use.
>Then consider that APRS has had global text-messaging (and
>email) via the keypad of the D7 and D700 radios for over 10
>years now, yet how many old-fuds ever even considered using it
>or introduced this exciting new capability to their kids?
That was like packet, when we were in chat rooms back around 1991,
long before the Internet was common outside of universities here.
:) However, for me, the weakness of APRS is the lack of
manufacturer support, with only one model of HT and mobile radio
supporting it, and relatively expensive at that. :( The Kenwood has
been tempting, but not compelling enough, and you still have to hook
up an outboard GPS, if you want to use the positioning reporting feature.
If I was to get into APRS, I would need integrated APRS support (the
Kenwood D7 is a good start), D-STAR/D-PRS capability (so I can do
both in the one radio), and either internal GPS or a Bluetooth
interface, so I can use a Bluetooth GPS with the radio (I already
have 2 Bluetooth capable GPS units), because the thing I need to
avoid like the plague is interconnecting cables, and by using
Bluetooth, I can put the GPS in the iPod pouch that many backpacks
provide these days.
As for text messaging, keypad support for this for when operating
portable, with optional interface to connect a PC (I have an EeePC,
which is a nice size), for when one is stationary and wants a full keyboard.
>You can even send text-messages or emails from your HT or Radio
>from anywhere on earth via any of the APRS satellites (ISS,
>GO-32, PCSAT-1, etc)... We even suggested that everyone should
>learn how to do this and exercise it during
>Satellite-Simulated-Emergency-Tests. You can even use any old
>TNC and any old radio to do this. See:
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/sset.html
Satellite APRS is certainly something that's quite useful, Over here,
I can see use for camping trips in remote areas to keep in
touch. It's not hard to go beyond useful VHF and phone coverage here
(just take a 2 hour drive from any of the capital cities, in many
cases, less, and of course 20 mins from smaller centres). Once
there, HF is the mainstay of amateur communications. Many towns have
a VHF repeater, but just try raising a local on it! Satellite APRS
is certainly an alternative to consider.
>What is hard in ham radio is "change". We basically have to
>wait for some ops to die in order for some new things to be
>tried and to take hold...
Either that or "shock tactics", where a small, but determined group
gain a foothold, and bring something new in and seed the initial
popularity. That happened with IRLP down here, 7 years ago, and it
seems to be happening with D-STAR right now. APRS didn't gain that
"WOW" factor in the same time, it was always seen as a useful niche
application. Perhaps a different marketing strategy might have worked better.
>A good start might be to sponsor an award for old fuds that try
>something new...
>And then show it to a kid... <wink>
Yep.
>P.S. Only about 2% of ham radio operators use APRS, and
>probably only 10% of them (0.2% of all hams) have tried this
>global text messaging (or email) feature. Yet, even 10 years
>ago, and ahead of its time we had it in Ham Radio!
Well, I'm a non user at this stage, reasons being:
Equipment - Other than APRS, the D7 wasn't compelling enough at the
price. Yes, I wanted one, but I had recently purchased a T81A around
that time, and the extra bands were worth more to me at the
time. Also, lack of inbuilt GPS or wireless GPS facility (The
IC-91AD has the same issue)
For home use (I would like to put up a WX station), the shack is in a
highly temporary state, I can only run HTs and networked applications
(e.g. VoIP, local I-Gate) that don't require physical presence in the
shack (Yep, HF is a non starter for me too these days). Hope to have
that situation resolved by 2009 :)
Being highly voice oriented, I also have to manage conflicts over
antenna use (voice usually wins out in the event of a
conflict). However, because I have had to support 2 sites for a
while, when it all comes together, I'm going to have spare antennas
that I can put data applications on. :) APRS will play fairly
nicely at home, due to the extremely low duty cycle. I also have
kept a TNC, so have the gear (at least for 1200 bps). For 2009, I do
want to expand the data side of my operation, on both HF and VHF/UHF,
at least in the shack. Portable is going to be a MUCH bigger
challenge, because no data mode (other than APRS messaging with a D7
- but I can't justify a D7) offers the portability of picking up a HT
and talking, and that's the level of portability I need.
73 de VK3JED
http://vkradio.com
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 351
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