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Today's Topics:
1. Re: HEO Launch Costs (John B. Stephensen)
2. where all the users (John Price)
3. Re: NAMASTE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!! (John Mock KD6PAG)
4. Re: Vanishing Hams (Diane Bruce)
5. Re: Vanishing Hams (Tony Langdon)
6. Bill Ress - N6GHz - - - AMSAT Board Candidate (Bill Ress)
7. Re: HEO Launch Costs (i8cvs)
8. Re: AMSAT NA (Stephen Melachrinos)
9. Re: Vanishing Hams (Robert Bruninga)
10. Re: AMSAT NA (Joe)
11. Re: Vanishing Hams (Alex Perez)
12. Cost of an HEO launch (G0MRF(AT)aol.com)
13. Re: Vanishing Hams (Tony Langdon)
14. Re: where all the users (Auke de Jong)
15. Re: Torture (John B. Stephensen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:01:23 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO Launch Costs
To: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>, "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>,
"Dave Guimont" <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>, "Luc Leblanc"
<lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <042901c8e83f$81fca120$0201a8c0(AT)your6bvpxyztoq>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Raising money from scientific institutions is the right thing do. AMSAT-NA
is also trying to raise money from different sources. Since the sources are
different, they are not competing and I don't see why we should kill off one
effort before either succedes.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
To: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>; "Dave Guimont"
<dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>;
"Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>; "John B. Stephensen"
<kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 16:13 UTC
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
> To: "Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>; "Dave Guimont"
> <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>
> Cc: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:00 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs
>
>> At Ham Radio 2008 the AMSAT-DL P3E update included the statement that
>> "the
>> cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budget of
>> AMSAT-DL."
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> John
>> KD6OZH
>
> Hi John, KD6OZH
>
> Even if the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside
> the
> budged of AMSAT-DL I am confident that they will find the strategy and the
> policy to get it into orbit because P3E will carry the X band transponder
> that has been designed to test the possibility to use the X band for the
> Mars probe P5A and many scientific Institutions are interested in P5A
>
> In the following paper written for P5A
>
> http://www.amsat-dl.org/p5a/p5a-to-mars.pdf
>
> Doctor Karl Meinzer, DJ4ZC writes:
>
> "Such a mission requires money which can certainly not be raised from
> AMSAT or from amateur radio. Ho-wever, since such a project finds
> interest for many reasons from other institutions, and the ability to
> finance such a mission appears to be a smaller problem, if it remains in
> the
> scope of customary AMSAT projects."
>
> http://ticket-to-mars.org/en_EN/mission.html
>
> In my opinion if the ability to finance a P5A mission appears to be a
> smaller problem it seems to me that to finance a P3E launch should be
> not impossible with the help of the scientific Institutions +Arianespace
> and the amateur community.
>
> The good policy and strategy of AMSAT-DL was to include a X band
> experiment into P3E wich is vital to test the ability to use the X band
> for P5A and many scientific Institution like Bockum are interested in
> P5A
>
> If P5A becomes a reality in the future many amateur stations will
> cooperate
> to collect telemetry from the Mars probe and so our amateur contribution
> to
> the scientific Institutions will pay the effort to have P3E launched for
> the
> rest of the amateur satellite communications.
>
> It seems to me that P3E and P5A are based both on a scientific and amateur
> interest because they are casted over a common solid pillar that make
> happy at the same time scientist people and the amateurs community.
>
> 73" de
>
> i8CVS Domenico
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:16:48 -0400
From: "John Price" <n4qwf1(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] where all the users
To: "amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID:
<8d1b8e80807171316s1e71b817w56c8c8ab15b7d5d0(AT)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been reading about the need for HEO satellites and the reasons
we don't have them. I wonder why the folks that wont the
HEO's so bad never show up on AO-07 or VO-52. Most passes it is joe
K3SZH and maybe two others at most on AO-07 and
I hardly ever hear anyone on VO-52. The birds that have all the users
are the FM sats. I would love to see a HEO built but if we
are not going to use what we have what is the point.
73's << John
--
N4QWF Amateur Radio Operator
AO-7,AO-27,SO-50,AO-51,VO-52,ISS
Internet N4QWF(AT)AMSAT.ORG
Echolink nodes #110903 -L #388463
Formerly KC4AHW VK3FEZ
Amsat Member #27845
DXCC #33,478
VUCC SAT #135
WAS SAT #296
51 on AO-51 #13
LON -79.256 LAT 37.459 Grid FM07il
>From the Foothills of the Blueridge
*Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming - "WOW, What a ride!"
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:32:09 -0700
From: John Mock KD6PAG <kd6pag(AT)amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMASTE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!
To: AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <E1KJa93-0001ZV-3V(AT)sebastopol.fdns.net>
Software and hardware design skills are not at all the same as people
and management skills. I can tell you from years of experience that
the best designers are often not the best managers (to say the least).
But for many years, management positions have been the only way up and
that has not always had the best results. Hence there has evolved in
the software business (at least) the senior position of chief architect.
Thus someone will exemplary technical skills is recognized (and paid)
accordingly, and expected to manage the design, not the people. This
gives a project the guidance it really needs without putting such a
technically valuable person into a management position that (s)he may
not be well suited for.
I don't know if this is at all applicable to AMSAT-NA, but perhaps it
is at least worth thinking about. Respectfully submitted,
-- KD6PAG (Networking Old-Timer, Satellite QRPer)
--------------------
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:19:25 -0400
From: Diane Bruce <db(AT)db.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: Ben Jackson <bbj(AT)innismir.net>
Cc: K5GNA(AT)aol.com, amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <20080717201925.GA30826(AT)night.db.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, just catching up with the list
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 07:38:55AM -0400, Ben Jackson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> kc6uqh wrote:
>
> | Our youth of today have become operators of electronic toys for thier own
> | self amusment.
>
> No, the technology available to youths today has become so pervasive
> that the majority of non-techies is using it. There are still the geeks
> and nerds sitting in the back room playing with technological toys, they
> just into Ham Radio. They think Ham Radio is a technological dead end
> and a just a bunch of old guys talking to each other about their medical
> problems. Sadly, for the most part, they're right.
I have been having luck by talking with the computer geeks, it's amazing
how much interest you can get by taking out an HT talking to computer
geeks about what you can do with ham radio. I happen to think chatting
on our own sats is neat I also think using digital DSP techniques
to work off of the moon is cool. You'd be surprised how many computer
type geeks are interested in the stuff we do but we do a bad job
of PR.
http://www.db.net/~db/amateur_radio.pdf (as text amateur_radio.txt)
Get the word out, you'd be surprised.
- 73 Diane VA3DB
--
- db(AT)FreeBSD.org db(AT)db.net http://www.db.net/~db
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:57:15 +1000
From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: Ben Jackson <bbj(AT)innismir.net>, kc6uqh <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>
Cc: K5GNA(AT)aol.com, amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487fb233.16538c0a.4197.ffffd849(AT)mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 09:38 PM 7/17/2008, Ben Jackson wrote:
>No, the technology available to youths today has become so pervasive
>that the majority of non-techies is using it. There are still the geeks
>and nerds sitting in the back room playing with technological toys, they
>just into Ham Radio. They think Ham Radio is a technological dead end
>and a just a bunch of old guys talking to each other about their medical
>problems. Sadly, for the most part, they're right.
Well, that's partly a problem of limited perception on their part,
and also a failure of the ham community to market itself as a place
for communication experimenters to play and try new things. I for
one have learnt a LOT of useful stuff about VoIP technology and
managing large networks, as well as having had a lot of fun tinkering
with various systems and making a few small contributions back to the
hobby. :-)
>| The wanting to learn about things technical is considered
>| anti-social by today's youth.
I think there's always a large part of the population not interested
in learning the guts of technology, and there is a certain percentage
that lives for that sort of thing, though not a lot of those know the
opportunities ham radio has to offer, especially in the software, DSP
and digital communications fields, as well as weak signal arena.
Now off to configure Asterisk as a radio node... Another skill set
that could be used in industry. ;)
73 de VK3JED
http://vkradio.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:00:02 -0700
From: Bill Ress <bill(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Bill Ress - N6GHz - - - AMSAT Board Candidate
To: AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487FB2D2.3050205(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
I?m Bill Ress, N6GHz, and I?m campaigning for a seat on the AMSAT Board.
You will soon be getting your ballots for this year?s AMSAT Board
election. The current dialog on the AMSAT-bb clearly indicates member
dissatisfaction with AMSAT leadership on various levels. Well, now you
have the chance to voice your concerns through your votes!!
In my ballot statement, you will read that I?m disappointed with AMSAT?s
lack of visible progress on a viable and sustainable satellite program,
and with the lack of adequate communication and accountability. The
engineering efforts are in a state of disarray. Hardly a screw has been
turning on Eagle. AMSAT?s website, the primary ?front? to the public, is
in need of redevelopment after months of neglect. The vision statement
has long been outdated.
After being content to operate the birds, I thought I should do more.
So, in 2006 I volunteered and started my very agonizing participation on
the Eagle design team, designing and building a concept 3.4 GHz down
converter and supporting the 70 CM receiver. That ?fruitless?
experience, along with what I've witnessed with the some of the AMSAT
leadership, prompted me to run for the board, hopeful of being able to
contribute in any way to making a positive improvement to a troubled
situation.
The inner circle of leadership goes back many years in AMSAT. They have
put in many, many well meaning volunteer hours and we should recognize
and appreciate that fact. Perhaps their long-term membership on the
board led to inaction and complacency, which clouded judgments and
prevented critical decisions from being made. The board (and
subsequently the membership) will benefit from a ?new? member who is
critical of current performance, and is willing to be a vocal reminder
of member concerns. You can help decide the future of AMSAT with your vote.
Do I think I can change the current AMSAT culture overnight? Only a fool
would think so, but I can tell you that I will try very hard to convey
your legitimate concerns with the hope of influencing the board?s
attitudes and decisions to support a process of positive change.
AMSAT is at a critical crossroad right now brought on by ever increasing
launch costs, lack of leadership and an unclear vision. I know the
leadership has finally recognized this and is making a serious effort to
address burning issues. I plan on offering to the board what I hope will
be viewed as constructive inputs which will reflect many of your concerns.
The AMSAT-bb is a great medium for communication, and I?m very keen on
open lines of communication. I?ll be using it in the coming days, weeks
and months to explain my position on the issues you want me to address.
I am also preparing an online e-survey, a format I will use
periodically, to get your opinion on various issues (and the results
will be shared with you and the AMSAT leadership).
To put this recurring criticism of ?poor communications? to rest, we
need to keep our web site active and current. If that doesn?t happen
very soon, I would encourage the leadership to use the AMSAT-bb, or
perhaps a ?blog? to keep members informed. For my part, you?ll be
hearing from me often using the AMSAT-bb, or perhaps my own blog.
I was first licensed in 1957 as KN2HDG. That was the first step, which
lead to my professional career in electronics. I graduated in 1968 from
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo with a BSEL. From there, I went on to have a
rewarding career in the RF/microwave industry with companies like
California Microwave, Omni Spectra and Radian Technology, where I
designed and built components for the satellite industry for companies
like Hughes, TRW and Lockheed. I now run a new start-up RF/microwave
components company. I am also a member of Project Oscar, ARRL, AMSAT-UK
and AMSAT-ZL (Go KiwiSat!!!).
I read the AMSAT-bb daily. I?m on the birds frequently but if we can?t
hook up there, email me at n6ghz(AT)amsat.org.
Thanks and 73s!!? Bill ? N6GHz
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:57:18 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: HEO Launch Costs
To: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>, "AMSAT-BB"
<amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>, "Dave Guimont" <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>,
"Luc
Leblanc" <lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c8e858$15670be0$0201a8c0(AT)tin.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
To: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>; "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>;
"Dave
Guimont" <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>; "Luc Leblanc" <lucleblanc6(AT)videotron.ca>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs
> Raising money from scientific institutions is the right thing do. AMSAT-NA
> is also trying to raise money from different sources. Since the sources
are
> different, they are not competing and I don't see why we should kill off
one
> effort before either succedes.
>
> 73,
>
> John
> KD6OZH
Hi John, KD6OZH
A two-horses stagecoach is much better then two rocking horses pulling each
a single carriage.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:01:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Stephen Melachrinos <melachri(AT)verizon.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID:
<26462150.2687391216335713774.JavaMail.root(AT)vms073.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>Geosyncrous (sp?)
Geosynchronous.
But actually, you probably mean geostationary. Geosynchronous just means that
the orbital period is integrally related to one sidereal day, so the ground
track repeats on a daily basis. There are lots of possibilities for
geosynchronous orbits, but only a few are practical. Geostationary is a
special case of geosynchronous, where the period is exactly equal to one
sidereal day, the eccentricity is zero, and the inclination is also zero. The
result is that the satellite does not appear to move (is "stationary") when
viewed from an observer on the earth. That's the orbit typically referred to
as a "GEO," and the one that's most in use for commercial and military
communications satellites, direct broadcast satellites, and civil weather
satellites.
>Ok, how difficult is that weird orbit that a few of
>the Russian Birds had, called something like Molylna,
>or something like that? They semed awesome and the
>best of both worlds,
The Molniya orbit **is** a HEO, albeit a special one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
Its characteristics:
- Its apogee is over the North, so it spends most of its time (better than
80%) above the equator.
- Its period is equal to one-half of one sidereal day, so its ground track
repeats exactly each day.
- Its inclination (63.4 degrees) is such that its argument of perigee doesn't
shift (from 270 degrees) so the apogee stays over the North Pole.
Because the apogee is so high (about 40,000 km), it's a relatively high-energy
orbit, meaning it's expensive (fuel-wise) to launch. It's not quite as bad as
GEO, but much worse than LEO. My rules of thumb put a factor of two between
each of these. In other words, if you could launch 100 kg to LEO, you could
have either:
- a 100 kg spacecraft at LEO, or
- spend 50 kg of fuel to put 50 kg into a Molniya-like HEO, or
- spend 75 kg of fuel to put 25 kg into GEO.
(Note that these are approximations. There are variations based upon the
altitude of the LEO, the inclination of launch, the Isp of the propulsion
system, and the accuracy of your orbital knowledge and execution of
maneuvers.)
Steve
W3HF
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:11:10 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <36E0886A23ED4E9299848EADCF38D5A2(AT)ewlab.usna.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Our youth of today have become operators of
>> electronic toys for thier own self amusment.
Two thoughts.
1) If kids are as uninterested as some people say, maybe we
should just focus on the 50+ guys who have outgrown the need for
instant gratification and want a fun hobby that he has the time
and $$$ to do..
2) If you want a group of kids to show radio, consider boy
scouts. Most of them soon learn how useless their cell phones
are when they are off at camp or in the wilderness. So at least
they see that value to ham radio easily...
Bob, Wb4APR
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:35:15 -0500
From: Joe <nss(AT)mwt.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT NA
To: w3hf(AT)arrl.net
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487FD733.1020502(AT)mwt.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Hi Stephen,
Hey Just came a light bulb above my head, something i never thought
about till now,
what does average birds weigh now?
and why?
Stephen Melachrinos wrote:
>>Geosyncrous (sp?)
>>
>>
>
>Geosynchronous.
>
>But actually, you probably mean geostationary. Geosynchronous just means that
the orbital period is integrally related to one sidereal day, so the ground
track repeats on a daily basis. There are lots of possibilities for
geosynchronous orbits, but only a few are practical. Geostationary is a
special case of geosynchronous, where the period is exactly equal to one
sidereal day, the eccentricity is zero, and the inclination is also zero. The
result is that the satellite does not appear to move (is "stationary") when
viewed from an observer on the earth. That's the orbit typically referred to
as a "GEO," and the one that's most in use for commercial and military
communications satellites, direct broadcast satellites, and civil weather
satellites.
>
>
>
>>Ok, how difficult is that weird orbit that a few of
>>the Russian Birds had, called something like Molylna,
>>or something like that? They semed awesome and the
>>best of both worlds,
>>
>>
>
>The Molniya orbit **is** a HEO, albeit a special one.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
>
>Its characteristics:
>
>- Its apogee is over the North, so it spends most of its time (better than
80%) above the equator.
>- Its period is equal to one-half of one sidereal day, so its ground track
repeats exactly each day.
>- Its inclination (63.4 degrees) is such that its argument of perigee doesn't
shift (from 270 degrees) so the apogee stays over the North Pole.
>
>Because the apogee is so high (about 40,000 km), it's a relatively high-
energy orbit, meaning it's expensive (fuel-wise) to launch. It's not quite as
bad as GEO, but much worse than LEO. My rules of thumb put a factor of two
between each of these. In other words, if you could launch 100 kg to LEO, you
could have either:
>
>- a 100 kg spacecraft at LEO, or
>- spend 50 kg of fuel to put 50 kg into a Molniya-like HEO, or
>- spend 75 kg of fuel to put 25 kg into GEO.
>
>(Note that these are approximations. There are variations based upon the
altitude of the LEO, the inclination of launch, the Isp of the propulsion
system, and the accuracy of your orbital knowledge and execution of
maneuvers.)
>
>Steve
>W3HF
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:39:57 -0700
From: Alex Perez <aperez(AT)alexperez.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.ORG
Message-ID: <FF7C9E20-7933-4447-9C95-2EF6F04BAB24(AT)alexperez.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jul 17, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>>> Our youth of today have become operators of
>>> electronic toys for thier own self amusment.
>
> Two thoughts.
>
> 1) If kids are as uninterested as some people say, maybe we
> should just focus on the 50+ guys who have outgrown the need for
> instant gratification and want a fun hobby that he has the time
> and $$$ to do..
Which will only compound the problem, when they die in the
statistically-likely 25-30 years.
You're not thinking long-term.
>
>
> 2) If you want a group of kids to show radio, consider boy
> scouts. Most of them soon learn how useless their cell phones
> are when they are off at camp or in the wilderness. So at least
> they see that value to ham radio easily...
Any serious outdoorsman can benefit from an HT the size of a pack of
cigarettes. I take mine with me every time I set foot on a daylong
hike. They're also potentially very useful for people who might do
extremish things such as sea-kayaking, mountain climbing, etc.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:40:16 EDT
From: G0MRF(AT)aol.com
Subject: [amsat-bb] Cost of an HEO launch
To: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <c37.356a562b.35b13260(AT)aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The anticipated 'going rate' for this new vehicle is shown at the bottom of
the page.
_http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php_ (http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php)
Test flight anyone?
David
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:05:30 +1000
From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: Alex Perez <aperez(AT)alexperez.com>, bruninga(AT)usna.edu
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <487fde54.02578c0a.4963.2ea1(AT)mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 09:39 AM 7/18/2008, Alex Perez wrote:
>Which will only compound the problem, when they die in the
>statistically-likely 25-30 years.
>You're not thinking long-term.
Not if it's an ongoing campaign, there will be more to replace them
over the years.
>Any serious outdoorsman can benefit from an HT the size of a pack of
>cigarettes. I take mine with me every time I set foot on a daylong
>hike. They're also potentially very useful for people who might do
>extremish things such as sea-kayaking, mountain climbing, etc.
That's for sure, providing there is reasonable coverage, which is
certainly often not the case here.
73 de VK3JED
http://vkradio.com
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:46:43 -0600
From: "Auke de Jong" <sparkycivic(AT)shaw.ca>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <022601c8e86f$bfbb0da0$6400a8c0(AT)sparkys>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I can only offer my own reason for being absent from VO-52 and AO-7:
I find keeping-up with the doppler-tuning of these LEO-orbits to be
frustrating. It doesn't help that my rig is awkward in this mode, and my
PC-control option has a problem I've yet to solve. Add, to this, my manual
rotator-controller, and it adds-up to several uncompleted contacts. VO-52
is, of course, harder than ao-7 because of it's height/speed.
Considering just this reason by itself, HEO is much more inviting, because
the doppler-effect is so greatly reduced. I think this reason might be
shared by several other HAM's on the BB, even if they don't mention it. I
even feel a little embarassed to admit that I haven't been able to cope with
the different rates of doppler-shift for uplink and downlink.
I might have to put my old transciever (FT-726R) back on the air, just
because it was a lot easier to control both VFO's mid-QSO to keep centered.
I don't even think I've completed one, since I've gotten my relatively
modern "satellite rig" FT-847, despite several attempts to do-so.
I think that the FM birds are more populated due to their twofold
advantage... very few tuning-steps to stay locked on RX and in some cases,
no uplink tuning at all; and FM gear is smaller and cheaper than anything
available to work linear, especially portable/mobile.
This would make an excellent poll, if we were on a messageboard-forum such
as the one on www.narc.net, or maybe as a mail-back card sent to all
members.
I've been skipping/deleting all the other chatter regarding complaints for
lack of a functioning HEO, etc etc. I feel so much better for not having
been infected by the negativity of others. I hope the storm dies-sown soon
so that we can get back to what we do best... whatever it is!
73's
Auke
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Price" <n4qwf1(AT)gmail.com>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] where all the users
>I have been reading about the need for HEO satellites and the reasons
> we don't have them. I wonder why the folks that wont the
> HEO's so bad never show up on AO-07 or VO-52. Most passes it is joe
> K3SZH and maybe two others at most on AO-07 and
> I hardly ever hear anyone on VO-52. The birds that have all the users
> are the FM sats. I would love to see a HEO built but if we
> are not going to use what we have what is the point.
>
> 73's << John
>
> --
> N4QWF Amateur Radio Operator
> AO-7,AO-27,SO-50,AO-51,VO-52,ISS
> Internet N4QWF(AT)AMSAT.ORG
> Echolink nodes #110903 -L #388463
> Formerly KC4AHW VK3FEZ
> Amsat Member #27845
> DXCC #33,478
> VUCC SAT #135
> WAS SAT #296
> 51 on AO-51 #13
> LON -79.256 LAT 37.459 Grid FM07il
>>From the Foothills of the Blueridge
>
> *Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to
> skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
> proclaiming - "WOW, What a ride!"
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:51:25 -0000
From: "John B. Stephensen" <kd6ozh(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Torture
To: <tjjapha(AT)earthlink.net>, <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <052401c8e870$685548e0$0201a8c0(AT)your6bvpxyztoq>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Both AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-DL have determined that a launch opportunity won't
just appear. When you're paying for the launch, you can pick the flight to
ride on. I don't see any need to build flight hardware in advance because
launch authority web sites show that you must schedule at least 18-24 months
in advance. I'd assume that there will be similar lead times when riding
along in someone else's satellite. What seems most useful now is research
into how to make the most efficient use of a very expensive platform in
space.
73,
John
KD6OZH
----- Original Message -----
From: "ANTHONY JAPHA" <tjjapha(AT)earthlink.net>
To: <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 18:29 UTC
Subject: [amsat-bb] Torture
>
> My sense is that if the outlook for resources is that we'll have enough
> for everything except the launch, then we should get Eagle and/or the
> Intelsat thing ready as fast as prudently possible. Everyone--designers,
> builders, Board, membership at large-- will have a great sense of
> achievement. Then, if it comes to naught, we'll all know that we did what
> we could. As it stands, it seems it would take a great deal of
> time--years-- to be ready even if a launch opportunity appeared. But then
> again, I'm not at all sure of that, because for information we have
> available is, well, woefully inadequate.
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 355
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