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CX2SA > SATDIG 19.07.08 00:11l 406 Lines 15380 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 19019_CX2SA
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V3 357
Path: IZ3LSV<IK2XDE<F5GOV<F4BWT<DK0WUE<7M3TJZ<CX2SA
Sent: 080718/2218Z @:CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA #:19019 [Minas] FBB7.00e $:19019_CX2SA
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. WTB: Bird 4410-15 element (Joe W2KJ)
2. Re: Vanishing Hams (Edward Cole)
3. Re: Icom 2820 (John Zaruba Jr)
4. Re: How volunteerism works... (Ken Ernandes)
5. Re: How volunteerism works... (Bill Ress)
6. Re: Icom IC-2820 (Clint Bradford)
7. Re: How volunteerism works... (Bill Ress)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:26:34 -0400
From: "Joe W2KJ" <w2kj(AT)bellsouth.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] WTB: Bird 4410-15 element
To: "AMSAT" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <003901c8e8e2$48d2b300$7101a8c0(AT)Y4M7M0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Still looking for a Bird 4410-15 element for my 4410A wattmeter.
This 100W element covers 1.0Ghz to 1.8 Ghz.
Anyone out there have a spare??
73, Joe W2KJ
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:16:33 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Vanishing Hams
To: "AMSAT" <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Message-ID: <200807181516.m6IFGXLA026139(AT)malik.acsalaska.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Simon,
Notice I said "Visible". I will not argue on who is most
active. When you attend a hamfest there is almost always a Satellite
Booth or demo. Amsat has become a very large and "visible" group
both for hams and for the public. Certainly the Emcomm activity of
ham radio gets the most press (and perhaps it should). But within
the bounds of the technical side of ham radio satellite still ranks
with high numbers of visibility (at lot due to ARISS).
Other areas of interest probably are more active right now...that
ought to be a wake up to the satellite segment. When I say satellite
"should" rank that is also commenting that perhaps it isn't curently
measuring up (most of the innovation is being done at the
organizational level and not in the shacks of the average satellite
operator - oh boy!
now I have probably steps on alot folks pride - but think about how
much construction is done? - other than hooking up cables and installing sw).
I am into microwave, eme, sdr's, radio astronomy...and lately into
500-KHz. All these activites require basic building and testing, as
that is (about) the only way you will get stuff for these areas of
interest. The Leo sats (FM voice) does not require much more than
the HT or mobile radio to get on. Satellite tracking hardware
abounds and is pretty easy to install. Digital satellite is probably
much more technical and requires a bit more in the manner of putting
together a system.
Now I am not saying that this is a bad thing, but as an area of
"technical" advance in ham radio it is left to the satellite builders
,in the main. The technical contributions are coming from other
technical areas of interest and being applied to satellites (e.g. GPS
diciplined local oscillators and SDX). The computer control system
is largely not an activity that the average satellite user is active
in (its a few specialist on the satellite developer's team and draw
from areas like TAPR, etc.).
So I don't think we are in disagreement (significantly) ;-)
73 Ed - KL7UW
At 11:40 PM 7/17/2008, Simon Brown \(HB9DRV\) wrote:
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: "Edward Cole" <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
> >
> > Satellite should rank right in with the digital, dsp, psk-31, aprs,
> > innovators. Please add microwavers, eme'ers and qrpers to the active
> > technical group. The reason that it appears that there is no
> > innovation going on in ham radio is more due to lack of advertising
> > by those special groups...they are having too much fun doing.
> >
> > Satellites are probably the most visible technical group in ham
> > radio! Its important that it continues to excite!
> >
>
>I would argue that digital mode developers / users and digital emergency
>comms groups are more active. As for advertising - I see more 'noise' from
>digital groups than satellite groups, but at the moment there's not an
>enormous amount of original development going on in the Ham satellite arena
>although there is more than enough to spark interest.
>
>Add in the fans of weather satellites and similar who use David Taylor's
>programs and you're probably talking similar levels of interest.
>
>On the other hand you can get going with almost all digital most for $100 or
>less (as long as you have a computer). Satellite operation to the same level
>is more expensive. FWIW over 50,000 distinct calls have been seen on digital
>modes over the last six months, see
>http://psk.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl .
>
>Now back to the coding...
>
>Simon HB9DRV
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:55:07 -0400
From: John Zaruba Jr <aa2bn(AT)comcast.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Icom 2820
To: jeff <kb2m(AT)comcast.net>
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <EC1341A9-D216-4C58-B775-5A40D706882D(AT)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Jeff,
Here is what I did...
I programmed the AO-51 uplink (145.92) on one side of the radio and
the downlink (435.300) the the other side.
I opened the squelch on the downlink and transmitted on the uplink
and the radio did not mute the downlink frequency, so I believe this
meets the full duplex test.
73,
John AA2BN
AMSAT #22683
On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:02 AM, jeff wrote:
> Does anyone know if the Icom 2820 is full duplex? I don't think it
> is , but
> I would like to hear this from an actual owner of one who has tried
> it on
> the sats. My dealer is clueless....
>
> 73 Jeff kb2m
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
> author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:26:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Ken Ernandes <n2wwd(AT)mindspring.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu, AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org
Message-ID:
<53038.1216398369527.JavaMail.root(AT)mswamui-
billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Bob - good diplomatic explanation!
73, Ken Ernandes N2WWD
-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 9:14 AM
>To: AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org
>Subject: [amsat-bb] How volunteerism works...
>
>Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
>done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
>Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
>
>The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
>to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
>"management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
>volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
>thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
>the peanut gallery...
>
>Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
>we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
>in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
>that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
>left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
>
>This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
>the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
>that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
>about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
>radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
>need and jump in to fill it.
>
> It is very simple!
>
>If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
>"get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
>and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
>complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
>don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
>another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
>ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
>progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
>made in volunteer organizations...
>
>This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
>years...
>Bob, WB4APR
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:08:48 -0700
From: Bill Ress <bill(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu
Cc: AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <4880CE20.3070604(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Bob,
I would agree with you on some of your points but I would have to say
you _really_ missed the mark when you said "The issue in an all
volunteer organization is not "what" needs to be done, but who will step
forward and do it, not the"management and direction" but the actual WORK."
To effectively use precious volunteers you need to provide them with
clear goals, objectives/requirements and the "very important
realization" that their efforts are meaningful and contribute to the
mission goals. Goals, objectives and direction come from "management".
Whether you realize that your efforts were meaningful is determined by
what the "management" does with your efforts.
Case in point. In 2007, the primary Eagle hardware effort was the
building of the 70 CM receiver capable of working in a PavePaws
environment. While we often belabor the point of not being able to get
volunteers, _it turned out that getting very capable volunteers to sign
up for the effort was not that difficult_. The team was assembled and
despite lack of guidance/direction on several requirements and process
issues, the receiver module was shown at Dayton in its early uncompleted
stages. That module sits today unfinished, a year later, as a paper weight.
So what happened? We had a volunteer team in place to do the WORK. That
surely wasn't the problem.
Well - I can give you many reasons relating to the 70 CM receiver. Maybe
the most glaring one is the fact that the 70 CM receiver design was
intended to work in a HEO. It is not the design for use on a LEO or
GEO. But after years of promoting Eagle design objectives for a HEO,
AMSAT management suddenly changed its "strategy" in late 2007 to pursue
a Intelsat GEO "rideshare" opportunity, which today is a strategy very
much in question. So any further effort on the 70 CM receiver was put on
hold - until management could figure out what to do next,
Hence the "results" of the 70 CM receiver volunteer team effort is very
uncertain to this day, two years after the build effort started. Not a
good to way to treat the volunteers who were there to do the WORK.
I submit, that with uncertain or changing "management strategies"
guiding volunteer efforts, I can see why it could be tough to get
motivated volunteers.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Robert Bruninga wrote:
> Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
> done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
> Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
>
> The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
> to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
> "management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
> volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
> thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
> the peanut gallery...
>
> Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
> we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
> in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
> that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
> left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
>
> This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
> the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
> that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
> about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
> radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
> need and jump in to fill it.
>
> It is very simple!
>
> If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
> "get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
> and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
> complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
> don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
> another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
> ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
> progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
> made in volunteer organizations...
>
> This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
> years...
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:20:59 -0700
From: Clint Bradford <clintbrad4d(AT)earthlink.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Icom IC-2820
To: amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org
Message-ID: <A8E0782F-99D4-4257-AA9D-6D2FB7605FAD(AT)earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Make sure SUB BAND AUDIO MUTE is OFF, and, yes, this is a true dual-
receive - and complex! - mobile rig.
>>... My dealer is clueless....
Then change dealers. Any dealer who wouldn't take the time to pull an
owners manual or look it up on the manufacturer's Web ste for you
doesn't care about its clients. Take your six hundred bucks elsewhere.
Clint Bradford, K6LCS
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:40:00 -0700
From: Bill Ress <bill(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: bruninga(AT)usna.edu
Cc: AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <4880D570.9070904(AT)hsmicrowave.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
And Bob, I don't want to pick on just the 70 CM receiver project. The
same scenario has repeating itself on the MAMSATE and ACP volunteer team
efforts.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 357
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