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CX2SA > SATDIG 19.07.08 20:11l 1225 Lines 44046 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: where all the users (Edward Cole)
2. Re: How volunteerism works... (Edward Cole)
3. Re: where all the users (John Price)
4. Re: where all the users (Joe)
5. Re: How volunteerism works... (kc6uqh)
6. Re: How volunteerism works... (D. Mynatt)
7. The new website of CS5CEP (AMRAD)
8. Re: where all the users (i8cvs)
9. Re: where all the users (Michael Tondee)
10. Re: How volunteerism works... (Dee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:28:23 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: Dave Guimont <dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com>, Joe <nss(AT)mwt.net>
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <200807191328.m6JDSNSQ057553(AT)hermes.acsalaska.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 08:25 PM 7/18/2008, Dave Guimont wrote:
> >Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
> >
> >in the old days we tracked the birds using something called math,
> >
> >Made little paper things with clear plastic overlays to simulate the
> >birds path across the sky,
> >
> >Doppler? uhhhh, we tristed the vfo to keep it in tune,
> >
> >geeech,
> >
> >Joe WB9SBD
>
>Joe,
>
>I had exactly the same thoughts, but hesitated to say it for fear the
>one who made the comment would not understand "twisting a knob"!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> 73, Dave, WB6LLO
> dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com
>
> Disagree: I learn....
>
> Pulling for P3E...
Yeah, maybe on 435-MHz but try doing that at 1268 or 2400 on the
Leos! Not very easy/practical. One hand tunes the uplink, other
moves azimuth, third the elevation, and fourth keys the mic...fifth
keeps the log...uhuh.
I find operating ordinary old mode-B or mode-J hard enough and think
auto-tracking (at least) is made for the Leos. For AO-10/13/40 its
non-issue, of course, Doppler rates and tracking rates are lower.
Ed - KL7UW
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 05:48:16 -0800
From: Edward Cole <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: kc6uqh <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>, <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>, <AMSAT-
BB(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <200807191348.m6JDmGLs037348(AT)malik.acsalaska.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Art, very valid points. I'm thinking what spouse will tolerate a ham
working on 4000-volts, today?
A collegue made a complement this week in a meeting saying that I
would be harder to replace in 2-1/2 years when I retire, as I should
be considered an "old-school technician". Meaning, that I had lots
of history and ability for hands-on troubleshooting and repairs. He
was warning my employer to not think they will easily hire someone
within the 2-weeks of my retirement and may want to get someone
onboard sooner in order to pick up a bit from me. My employer
advised that the company BOD had already approved hiring my
replacement for the last year that I work (to work alongside me)...wow!
I too, started in summer 1957 by building an Ocean Hopper 3-tube
receiver (at age 13) and heard Sputnik. My Dad bought me a solder
gun for my birthday so I could assemble it. Yep, different times!
I was given adult responsibilities at age ten.
73 Ed - KL7UW
At 09:29 PM 7/18/2008, kc6uqh wrote:
>Bob,
>There was a time not long ago when one Amateur could do an amazing project.
>
>Today the multi-disiplines required to put a S/C together and get it into
>space, require a well managed team effort. This is true for any cutting edge
>technoloigy of today.
>
>Amateur Radio can only do team efforts, provided the team respects each
>other and everyone has complementry skills.
>
>Leadership is required to bring the skills needed together and maintain a
>critical mass long enough to complete the project.
>
>I came into electronics at an early age, restored a receiver that was
>recovered from a sunken ship and listened to Spuknik on it in 1957. I have
>spent my whole life in electronics and have enjoied the many projects I
>worked on.
>
>How many parents would allow there son to work on a receiver with 400VDC
>present in this day and age, where a helmet is now required to ride a
>bicycle? Where is the youth of today going to get the practical experience
>required to build a satellite?
>
> TV has all but ruined creativity and imagination. There is a big difference
>between a computer simulation and application in the physical form! AMSAT is
>not going to get many more chances to assemble a team that had the skills to
>make Oscar 10 and 13. Time is not on our side. Amatuers with the right skill
>sets are mostly my age, Most youth of today would have trouble with
>soldering and operating a screwdriver, that is if thier parents would alow
>them to try.
>
>Art, KC6UQH
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
>To: <AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org>
>Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 6:14 AM
>Subject: [amsat-bb] How volunteerism works...
>
>
> > Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
> > done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
> > Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
> >
> > The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
> > to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
> > "management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
> > volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
> > thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
> > the peanut gallery...
> >
> > Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
> > we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
> > in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
> > that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
> > left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
> >
> > This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
> > the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
> > that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
> > about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
> > radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
> > need and jump in to fill it.
> >
> > It is very simple!
> >
> > If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
> > "get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
> > and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
> > complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
> > don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
> > another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
> > ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
> > progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
> > made in volunteer organizations...
> >
> > This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
> > years...
> > Bob, WB4APR
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:28:30 -0400
From: "John Price" <n4qwf1(AT)gmail.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: "Edward Cole" <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>, "amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org"
<amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID:
<8d1b8e80807190828v418f17f5t39a231cb7166d079(AT)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I guess if I was looking for easy I would just work the FM 2 meter
repeater on the 3000 foot mountain 8 miles from here. It does not
require antenna control or doppler tracking. Well I do actual use that
repeater but not for reasons of ease.
Sure working satellite is a effort but when you are out at field day
and you work that L/u station on AO-51 it sure is a feeling of
accomplishment. At least for me it is.
Come on guys lets get back to what we got into this hobby for. Communicating
was
what got me involved. So anyone interested in just a short chat look
for me on AO-7 or VO-52 or anything else up there even that 2 meter
repeater up there.
On 7/19/08, Edward Cole <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net> wrote:
> At 08:25 PM 7/18/2008, Dave Guimont wrote:
>
> > >Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
> > >
> > >in the old days we tracked the birds using something called math,
> > >
> > >Made little paper things with clear plastic overlays to simulate the
> > >birds path across the sky,
> > >
> > >Doppler? uhhhh, we tristed the vfo to keep it in tune,
> > >
> > >geeech,
> > >
> > >Joe WB9SBD
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >I had exactly the same thoughts, but hesitated to say it for fear the
> >one who made the comment would not understand "twisting a knob"!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 73, Dave, WB6LLO
> > dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com
> >
> > Disagree: I learn....
> >
> > Pulling for P3E...
>
> Yeah, maybe on 435-MHz but try doing that at 1268 or 2400 on the
> Leos! Not very easy/practical. One hand tunes the uplink, other
> moves azimuth, third the elevation, and fourth keys the mic...fifth
> keeps the log...uhuh.
>
> I find operating ordinary old mode-B or mode-J hard enough and think
> auto-tracking (at least) is made for the Leos. For AO-10/13/40 its
> non-issue, of course, Doppler rates and tracking rates are lower.
>
> Ed - KL7UW
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
N4QWF Amateur Radio Operator
AO-7,AO-27,SO-50,AO-51,VO-52,ISS
Internet N4QWF(AT)AMSAT.ORG
Echolink nodes #110903 -L #388463
Formerly KC4AHW VK3FEZ
Amsat Member #27845
DXCC #33,478
VUCC SAT #135
WAS SAT #296
51 on AO-51 #13
LON -79.256 LAT 37.459 Grid FM07il
>From the Foothills of the Blueridge
*Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming - "WOW, What a ride!"
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:51:25 -0500
From: Joe <nss(AT)mwt.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: Edward Cole <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <48820D7D.7020507(AT)mwt.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Whatever,
We did it all the time, somewewhat like contesting, multitasking,
talking, logging, duping, tuning, antenna adjusting, did it all, all
the time, not a biggie, hmmmm?
whatever.
Edward Cole wrote:
> At 08:25 PM 7/18/2008, Dave Guimont wrote:
>
>> >Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
>> >
>> >in the old days we tracked the birds using something called math,
>> >
>> >Made little paper things with clear plastic overlays to simulate the
>> >birds path across the sky,
>> >
>> >Doppler? uhhhh, we tristed the vfo to keep it in tune,
>> >
>> >geeech,
>> >
>> >Joe WB9SBD
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I had exactly the same thoughts, but hesitated to say it for fear the
>> one who made the comment would not understand "twisting a knob"!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Dave, WB6LLO
>> dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com
>>
>> Disagree: I learn....
>>
>> Pulling for P3E...
>
>
> Yeah, maybe on 435-MHz but try doing that at 1268 or 2400 on the
> Leos! Not very easy/practical. One hand tunes the uplink, other
> moves azimuth, third the elevation, and fourth keys the mic...fifth
> keeps the log...uhuh.
>
> I find operating ordinary old mode-B or mode-J hard enough and think
> auto-tracking (at least) is made for the Leos. For AO-10/13/40 its
> non-issue, of course, Doppler rates and tracking rates are lower.
>
> Ed - KL7UW
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:32:04 -0700
From: "kc6uqh" <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: "Dee" <morsesat(AT)optonline.net>
Cc: Rick Hambly <w2gps(AT)amsat.org>, AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <001a01c8e9bc$faafd550$0200a8c0(AT)kc6uqh>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dee,
I am a past president of the Palomar Amateur Radio Club, The only way I got
volunteers was to personaly ask them on a one on one basis.
Amsat is not an option for me.
1. I have a full time job
2. I am still involved with the Palomar Club and receintly rebuilt one of
thier repeaters.
3. My arthritic 6'2" frame does not fit in a seat for a 6 year old child on a
commercial aircraft.
4. At age 65 I can not spend 4-5 hours every night and continue my full time
employment.
If someone wants some help I may have something to offer locally. I used H/B
antennas one on a 6'step ladder to sucessfully work AO-40. These are not
solutions ICOM and YEASU wants to see published, they want to sell equipment!
Low tech solutions are enjoied by only a few.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Dee
To: kc6uqh
Cc: bruninga(AT)usna.edu ; AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org ; Rick Hambly
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
kc6uqh wrote:
Bob,
There was a time not long ago when one Amateur could do an amazing project.
Today the multi-disiplines required to put a S/C together and get it into
space, require a well managed team effort. This is true for any cutting edge
technoloigy of today.
Amateur Radio can only do team efforts, provided the team respects each
other and everyone has complementry skills.
Leadership is required to bring the skills needed together and maintain a
critical mass long enough to complete the project.
I came into electronics at an early age, restored a receiver that was
recovered from a sunken ship and listened to Spuknik on it in 1957. I have
spent my whole life in electronics and have enjoied the many projects I
worked on.
How many parents would allow there son to work on a receiver with 400VDC
present in this day and age, where a helmet is now required to ride a
bicycle? Where is the youth of today going to get the practical experience
required to build a satellite?
TV has all but ruined creativity and imagination. There is a big difference
between a computer simulation and application in the physical form! AMSAT is
not going to get many more chances to assemble a team that had the skills to
make Oscar 10 and 13. Time is not on our side. Amatuers with the right skill
sets are mostly my age, Most youth of today would have trouble with
soldering and operating a screwdriver, that is if thier parents would alow
them to try.
Art, KC6UQH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
To: <AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] How volunteerism works...
Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
"management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
the peanut gallery...
Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
need and jump in to fill it.
It is very simple!
If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
"get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
made in volunteer organizations...
This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
years...
Bob, WB4APR
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
_______________________________________________
Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
All,
I think that you are all on the same floor of the building now. After a few
days of postings, I'd like to chime in. What has happened in the past
with Satellite building is a that a group of "Friends" got together and
decided that "hey, let's do this!" As friends, they knew each other well and
enjoyed each others company regardless of drawbacks and shortcomings. On
that level, as I believe, is how we should approach any management style.
As some of our shirts say "We all are (or not) Rocket scientists."
The goal is the same, to enjoy satellites built by our peers. The other 99%
should support them with fund raisers, attending hamfests to show
others what we are trying to do and bring them on our side of the ropes.
I also noted a few weeks ago that there are BOD members openings and if you
feel that you could have offered better ideas and directions, you would
get on the proper bandwagon and ramp up towards that direction. I only see
4 on the ballot. So once again, comments are shallow and only
potshots at the people that are volunteering their time, efforts, experience
and direction are flung out into the ether.
Constructive comments are always welcome to keep the organization on track.
Those that want to detract others from the smooth operation
of an organization as AMSAT-NA ,be ready with their services to back up
ideas with action.
73,
Dee, NB2F
NJ AMSAT Co-ordinator
East coast " "
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3230 (20080701) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:53:22 -0600
From: "D. Mynatt" <dave(AT)mynatt.biz>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: "kc6uqh" <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>, "Dee" <morsesat(AT)optonline.net>
Cc: AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org, Mark Spencer <mspencer(AT)hughes.net>
Message-ID: <20ECE49F73BD4C2DB2309AFD0184F946(AT)compaq>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dee-
When we get our 3m antenna installed we'll be happy to share with the local
AMSAT people, if we could find them. We will be holding an media event and
general open house at the installation and ask the local ham clubs in Pueblo
and Canon City to invite their folks and this time have membership info
available. I'll also put up AMSAT membership info, although any new folks
will need classes, help in getting started, and mentoring -not to speak of
equipment. We'll ask teachers to invite their students so we can introduce
schools to the idea of space communications in time for Mark Spencer's ARRL
Teacher's Institute seminars.
Although it's mainly to support Colorado Space Grant Consortium launches, it
will be used for ARRL (and AMSAT) activity too if we can get it coordinated.
I think AMSAT folks are much in need and would be appreciated very much to
get the mechanics worked out and show how to work satellites with similar,
but smaller, equipment. AMSAT would be a welcome partner as is ARRL.
The possibilities are there. Would AMSAT be open to finding a way to work
together?
Dave Mynatt
Program Director
========================
http://sciencecenter.no-ip.org
SID ID: S-0258
APRS Tier II Server (AT) pueblo.aprs2.net:14501
LAT: 38'16.278" N
LON: -104'40.537" W
Alt: 4780ft
DM78
----- Original Message -----
From: "kc6uqh" <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>
To: "Dee" <morsesat(AT)optonline.net>
Cc: "Rick Hambly" <w2gps(AT)amsat.org>; <AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
> Dee,
> I am a past president of the Palomar Amateur Radio Club, The only way I
> got volunteers was to personaly ask them on a one on one basis.
> Amsat is not an option for me.
> 1. I have a full time job
> 2. I am still involved with the Palomar Club and receintly rebuilt one of
> thier repeaters.
> 3. My arthritic 6'2" frame does not fit in a seat for a 6 year old child
> on a commercial aircraft.
> 4. At age 65 I can not spend 4-5 hours every night and continue my full
> time employment.
>
> If someone wants some help I may have something to offer locally. I used
> H/B antennas one on a 6'step ladder to sucessfully work AO-40. These are
> not solutions ICOM and YEASU wants to see published, they want to sell
> equipment! Low tech solutions are enjoied by only a few.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dee
> To: kc6uqh
> Cc: bruninga(AT)usna.edu ; AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org ; Rick Hambly
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
>
>
> kc6uqh wrote:
>
> Bob,
> There was a time not long ago when one Amateur could do an amazing
> project.
>
> Today the multi-disiplines required to put a S/C together and get it into
> space, require a well managed team effort. This is true for any cutting
> edge
> technoloigy of today.
>
> Amateur Radio can only do team efforts, provided the team respects each
> other and everyone has complementry skills.
>
> Leadership is required to bring the skills needed together and maintain a
> critical mass long enough to complete the project.
>
> I came into electronics at an early age, restored a receiver that was
> recovered from a sunken ship and listened to Spuknik on it in 1957. I have
> spent my whole life in electronics and have enjoied the many projects I
> worked on.
>
> How many parents would allow there son to work on a receiver with 400VDC
> present in this day and age, where a helmet is now required to ride a
> bicycle? Where is the youth of today going to get the practical experience
> required to build a satellite?
>
> TV has all but ruined creativity and imagination. There is a big
> difference
> between a computer simulation and application in the physical form! AMSAT
> is
> not going to get many more chances to assemble a team that had the skills
> to
> make Oscar 10 and 13. Time is not on our side. Amatuers with the right
> skill
> sets are mostly my age, Most youth of today would have trouble with
> soldering and operating a screwdriver, that is if thier parents would alow
> them to try.
>
> Art, KC6UQH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
> To: <AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org>
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 6:14 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] How volunteerism works...
>
>
> Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
> done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
> Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
>
> The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
> to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
> "management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
> volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
> thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
> the peanut gallery...
>
> Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
> we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
> in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
> that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
> left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
>
> This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
> the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
> that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
> about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
> radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
> need and jump in to fill it.
>
> It is very simple!
>
> If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
> "get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
> and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
> complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
> don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
> another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
> ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
> progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
> made in volunteer organizations...
>
> This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
> years...
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>
> All,
> I think that you are all on the same floor of the building now. After a
> few days of postings, I'd like to chime in. What has happened in the past
> with Satellite building is a that a group of "Friends" got together and
> decided that "hey, let's do this!" As friends, they knew each other well
> and
> enjoyed each others company regardless of drawbacks and shortcomings. On
> that level, as I believe, is how we should approach any management style.
> As some of our shirts say "We all are (or not) Rocket scientists."
> The goal is the same, to enjoy satellites built by our peers. The other
> 99% should support them with fund raisers, attending hamfests to show
> others what we are trying to do and bring them on our side of the ropes.
> I also noted a few weeks ago that there are BOD members openings and if
> you feel that you could have offered better ideas and directions, you
> would
> get on the proper bandwagon and ramp up towards that direction. I only
> see 4 on the ballot. So once again, comments are shallow and only
> potshots at the people that are volunteering their time, efforts,
> experience and direction are flung out into the ether.
> Constructive comments are always welcome to keep the organization on
> track. Those that want to detract others from the smooth operation
> of an organization as AMSAT-NA ,be ready with their services to back up
> ideas with action.
> 73,
> Dee, NB2F
> NJ AMSAT Co-ordinator
> East coast " "
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:04:47 +0100
From: "AMRAD" <amrad(AT)sapo.pt>
Subject: [amsat-bb] The new website of CS5CEP
To: <AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <000801c8e9c1$8cd999d0$e02cfea9(AT)MARIANO>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dear all,
This is the link to the new webpage of CS5CEP at IST-TAGUS (Technical
University of Lisbon) located inside TAGUSPARK the park of Science and
Technology:
http://cep.ist.utl.pt/
Regards,
AMSAT-CT
www.amrad.pt
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:21:52 +0200
From: "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs(AT)tin.it>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: "Joe" <nss(AT)mwt.net>, "Anthony Monteiro" <aa2tx(AT)comcast.net>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>, aa2tx(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <005a01c8e9c3$f04e0a80$0201a8c0(AT)tin.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <nss(AT)mwt.net>
To: "Anthony Monteiro" <aa2tx(AT)comcast.net>
Cc: "AMSAT-BB" <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>; <aa2tx(AT)amsat.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 4:03 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
> C'Mon guys,
>
> Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
>
> in the old days we tracked the birds using something called math,
>
> Made little paper things with clear plastic overlays to simulate the
> birds path across the sky,
>
> Doppler? uhhhh, we tristed the vfo to keep it in tune,
>
> geeech,
>
> Joe WB9SBD
Hi Joe, WB9SBD
I agree completely with you and in order to know from the historical point
of view what we did since OSCAR-6 and what was necessary but still is
really necessary for working satellites without to complicate the life I
suggest every one to read the following old ARRL publication dated 1977
"Getting to know OSCAR from the ground up"
CONTENTS :
Space Communication is for Everyone
Getting started
Finding OSCAR: it's Easy
How to use OSCAR-7 Mode-B
The Benefits are Yours
The OSCARLOCATOR
The Newest OSCAR
Toward the Ultimate Amateur Satellite
What Phase III Will Do
You...and AMSAT Phase III
OSCAR Goes to Schools
Satellites Can Save Lives
OSCAR's Vital Statistics
The rise and Fall of the OSCARs
It is a reprint of the popular QST Series on Amateur Satellites "Everything
You Need to Know for Working OSCAR
My good friend Mak SV1BSX has a 11 MB (2 x 5.5 MB pdf file ) available
on request to him at sv1bsx(AT)yahoo.gr
At the end of reading you will realize that Joe WB9SBD statement is correct
particularly for those who are interested in OSCAR-7 and VO-52 and why not
on P3E
> Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:28:27 -0400
From: "Michael Tondee" <mat_62(AT)netcommander.com>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
To: "Joe" <nss(AT)mwt.net>, "Edward Cole" <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Cc: amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org
Message-ID: <00c901c8e9c4$db8fdf00$6500a8c0(AT)w4hij1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hmmn,
Kind of reminds me of the old joke about "when I was your age I walked six
miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways!!!" I'm sure it's absolutely
possible to track doppler by hand and chase each other up and down the band
but why? What problem is it that some people seem to have with making things
easier?
Jeez!!
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <nss(AT)mwt.net>
To: "Edward Cole" <kl7uw(AT)acsalaska.net>
Cc: <amsat-bb(AT)AMSAT.Org>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:51 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: where all the users
> Whatever,
> We did it all the time, somewewhat like contesting, multitasking,
> talking, logging, duping, tuning, antenna adjusting, did it all, all
> the time, not a biggie, hmmmm?
>
> whatever.
>
> Edward Cole wrote:
>
>> At 08:25 PM 7/18/2008, Dave Guimont wrote:
>>
>>> >Yes puters do make it easyier, but not tottally absolutely necessary.
>>> >
>>> >in the old days we tracked the birds using something called math,
>>> >
>>> >Made little paper things with clear plastic overlays to simulate the
>>> >birds path across the sky,
>>> >
>>> >Doppler? uhhhh, we tristed the vfo to keep it in tune,
>>> >
>>> >geeech,
>>> >
>>> >Joe WB9SBD
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I had exactly the same thoughts, but hesitated to say it for fear the
>>> one who made the comment would not understand "twisting a knob"!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73, Dave, WB6LLO
>>> dguimon1(AT)san.rr.com
>>>
>>> Disagree: I learn....
>>>
>>> Pulling for P3E...
>>
>>
>> Yeah, maybe on 435-MHz but try doing that at 1268 or 2400 on the
>> Leos! Not very easy/practical. One hand tunes the uplink, other
>> moves azimuth, third the elevation, and fourth keys the mic...fifth
>> keeps the log...uhuh.
>>
>> I find operating ordinary old mode-B or mode-J hard enough and think
>> auto-tracking (at least) is made for the Leos. For AO-10/13/40 its
>> non-issue, of course, Doppler rates and tracking rates are lower.
>>
>> Ed - KL7UW
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:53:36 -0400
From: Dee <morsesat(AT)optonline.net>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
To: kc6uqh <kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org>
Message-ID: <48822A20.3020002(AT)optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Art,
I commend you for your local efforts. I am not far behind you in age. I
hope to make myself more available after retirement to the Hamsat community.
Most of us do have full time employment as well and we have other
commitments and hobbies to keep us occupied. In my area, I have several
clubs that
wish to make me their property, however, in the same boat as you are.
No one is asking for a full employment type commitment, although
sometimes it seems that way.
We all do what we can to inform our fellow hams of how things operate
with satellites. This is our passion.
You can be a rollmodel for this easy and simple ways to work satellites
with your homebrew experience. I am not sure of what type of support
AMSAT offers
in your area but we have a cadre of Co-ordinators listed on the website
(with our fully operational store) to give you assistance.
Age 65?? I think you are the average age of every one that assisted at
the AMSAT Booth in Dayton this year.
Yes the manufacturer's will sell their gear but a non profit like AMSAT
needs support of the academia area and Government subsidies
that they produce to further education.
Seek out your local AMSAT guys and let them know of your interest to
help out. The North East has many that are busier than most people
and leaves many holes and areas people like you could help out.
73,
Dee NB2F
kc6uqh wrote:
> Dee,
> I am a past president of the Palomar Amateur Radio Club, The only way
> I got volunteers was to personaly ask them on a one on one basis.
> Amsat is not an option for me.
> 1. I have a full time job
> 2. I am still involved with the Palomar Club and receintly rebuilt one
> of thier repeaters.
> 3. My arthritic 6'2" frame does not fit in a seat for a 6 year old
> child on a commercial aircraft.
> 4. At age 65 I can not spend 4-5 hours every night and continue my
> full time employment.
>
> If someone wants some help I may have something to offer locally. I
> used H/B antennas one on a 6'step ladder to sucessfully work AO-40.
> These are not solutions ICOM and YEASU wants to see published, they
> want to sell equipment! Low tech solutions are enjoied by only a few.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Dee <mailto:morsesat(AT)optonline.net>
> To: kc6uqh <mailto:kc6uqh(AT)cox.net>
> Cc: bruninga(AT)usna.edu <mailto:bruninga(AT)usna.edu> ;
> AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org> ; Rick Hambly
> <mailto:w2gps(AT)amsat.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: How volunteerism works...
>
> kc6uqh wrote:
>
>>Bob,
>>There was a time not long ago when one Amateur could do an amazing project.
>>
>>Today the multi-disiplines required to put a S/C together and get it into
>>space, require a well managed team effort. This is true for any cutting edge
>>technoloigy of today.
>>
>>Amateur Radio can only do team efforts, provided the team respects each
>>other and everyone has complementry skills.
>>
>>Leadership is required to bring the skills needed together and maintain a
>>critical mass long enough to complete the project.
>>
>>I came into electronics at an early age, restored a receiver that was
>>recovered from a sunken ship and listened to Spuknik on it in 1957. I have
>>spent my whole life in electronics and have enjoied the many projects I
>>worked on.
>>
>>How many parents would allow there son to work on a receiver with 400VDC
>>present in this day and age, where a helmet is now required to ride a
>>bicycle? Where is the youth of today going to get the practical experience
>>required to build a satellite?
>>
>> TV has all but ruined creativity and imagination. There is a big difference
>>between a computer simulation and application in the physical form! AMSAT is
>>not going to get many more chances to assemble a team that had the skills to
>>make Oscar 10 and 13. Time is not on our side. Amatuers with the right skill
>>sets are mostly my age, Most youth of today would have trouble with
>>soldering and operating a screwdriver, that is if thier parents would alow
>>them to try.
>>
>>Art, KC6UQH
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga(AT)usna.edu>
>>To: <AMSAT-BB(AT)AMSAT.Org>
>>Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 6:14 AM
>>Subject: [amsat-bb] How volunteerism works...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Again we see lots and lots of ideas of what "needs to be
>>>done"... And most of them are pointed at better "management"...
>>>Or better "direction" of what is being done (by others)...
>>>
>>>The issue in an all volunteer organization is not "what" needs
>>>to be done, but who will step forward and do it, not the
>>>"management and direction" but the actual WORK. That requires
>>>volunteers with the knowledge, skills, time and energy, and
>>>thick skin, Especially under the hail of rocks and stones from
>>>the peanut gallery...
>>>
>>>Counter productive to getting the work we need done (volunteers
>>>we need) is the attitude from the peanut gallery about getting
>>>in there and "kicking butt" and "better management"... You do
>>>that in an all volunteer organization and soon there is nothing
>>>left but managers and butt kickers and complainers.
>>>
>>>This happens in every aspect of ham radio all the way down to
>>>the local clubs and all the way to the top. You'd think by now
>>>that the old-fuds who clamour for more effort (from others) have
>>>about 30 years of experience with how this does NOT work in ham
>>>radio. Progress is made by self motivated individuals who see a
>>>need and jump in to fill it.
>>>
>>>It is very simple!
>>>
>>>If you can contribute "work" then jump in and do it. Othwerwise
>>>"get out of the way" and contribute money, food, encouragement,
>>>and assistance to those that do. "Ankle-biting, naysaying, and
>>>complaining" accomplish absolutely nothing forward. If you
>>>don't like the direction things are going, then jump in and go
>>>another way and see if you can find followers (workers, not
>>>ditto-heads)... But get out of the way of those that are making
>>>progress in their direction... That's the only way progress is
>>>made in volunteer organizations...
>>>
>>>This is surely what this old-fud has learned in the last 30
>>>years...
>>>Bob, WB4APR
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via AMSAT-BB(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>>
>>
> All,
> I think that you are all on the same floor of the building now.
> After a few days of postings, I'd like to chime in. What has
> happened in the past
> with Satellite building is a that a group of "Friends" got
> together and decided that "hey, let's do this!" As friends, they
> knew each other well and
> enjoyed each others company regardless of drawbacks and
> shortcomings. On that level, as I believe, is how we should
> approach any management style.
> As some of our shirts say "We all are (or not) Rocket scientists."
> The goal is the same, to enjoy satellites built by our peers. The
> other 99% should support them with fund raisers, attending
> hamfests to show
> others what we are trying to do and bring them on our side of the
> ropes.
> I also noted a few weeks ago that there are BOD members openings
> and if you feel that you could have offered better ideas and
> directions, you would
> get on the proper bandwagon and ramp up towards that direction. I
> only see 4 on the ballot. So once again, comments are shallow and
> only
> potshots at the people that are volunteering their time, efforts,
> experience and direction are flung out into the ether.
> Constructive comments are always welcome to keep the organization
> on track. Those that want to detract others from the smooth operation
> of an organization as AMSAT-NA ,be ready with their services to
> back up ideas with action.
> 73,
> Dee, NB2F
> NJ AMSAT Co-ordinator
> East coast " "
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3230 (20080701) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb(AT)amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 359
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