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CX2SA > SATDIG 07.12.08 20:38l 656 Lines 21746 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: CX2SA@CX2SA.LAV.URY.SA
To : SATDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: LOTW Satellite name for ISS ? (George Henry)
2. Re: K5OE antenna projects (Alan Sieg WB5RMG)
3. Re: K5OE antenna projects (Bob Bruninga )
4. Re: K5OE antenna projects (Dave Guimont)
5. Amsat-BB Elliptical Orbit Satellites & the ISS (ki6rrq)
6. ISS 9600 succeeded in digipeat (Mineo Wakita)
7. Re: Re Choppy ISS signals (G0MRF@xxx.xxxx
8. Re: K5OE antenna projects (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ)
9. Re: LOTW Satellite name for ISS ? (Alan P. Biddle)
10. Re: ISS 9600 succeeded in digipeat ( Dirgantara R YF0EEE)
11. Answer from ARRL on ISS and LoTW (Curt Nixon)
12. Re: Re Choppy ISS signals (n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
13. PCSAT-1 Operations Guidelines (Robert Bruninga)
14. ISS/MKS sending SSTV (andy thomas)
15. Kenwood TH-F6A for AO-51 / SO-50?? (Guy Brauning)
16. Question re rx/tx relays and diplexer (Curt Nixon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 20:49:13 -0600
From: "George Henry" <ka3hsw@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LOTW Satellite name for ISS ?
To: "amsat bb" <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <223AD8ADA2B245BBAEF07C852AABC3B8@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Most likely, it's simply destructive interference from too many people
(especially those who can't hear themselves on the downlink) trying to
access it at once... all of the out-of-phase signals cancel each other out,
but someone with a strong enough signal can capture it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "Tim Goodrich" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>; <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LOTW Satellite name for ISS ?
>I have a different view of the choppy nature of things - and I hope others
>will jump in with information about it.
>
> I believe it has to do with the relative position of the antenna(s) on the
> ISS and all the "stuff" connected to the station that run in different
> directions. I can see how the antennas might be blocked from out "line of
> sight" as this module or that solar array "gets in the way" on a given
> pass.
>
> Any other thoughts about it out there?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:30:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Alan Sieg WB5RMG" <wb5rmg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K5OE antenna projects
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <2948.192.168.121.31.1228620622.squirrel@xxx.xxx.xxx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>> the Texas Eggbeater II....
>> Even without a preamp, these are good
>> enough for most LEO satellites.
>
> I am very inerested in performance reports from omni leo antennas,
> so could you clarify "good enough" for us?
Good question Bob . . I suspected someone would call me on that .. /;^)
I have had these a little over a year now, but have not been following
the satellites as much as I'd like to. I have little to compare with,
as my last major satellite Ops were AO-13, with multi cross-yagi . . .
Now with no steering and less than 30 watts, I'm pleasantly surprised.
With no outside antennae I was not expecting much, and built these for
versatility (specifically for the attic). I was impressed tho, and have
made contacts via VO-52, FO-29, AO-7 (only tried a few FM, too crowded).
Initially I used preamps, as I have 60 feet of 9913. After Field Day
I did not re-installed the preamps, and still do quite well. My Hustler
co-linear vertical is better on the horizon of course, but these two
perform better at mid to higher elevation - less fading than I expected.
I do get some pretty deep fades on overhead passes tho.
With the linear birds, the noise floor is low enough, I usually hear
myself well. I can't compete for the FM capture in the flying repeaters,
but have been doing APRS easily via ISS when it is active.
I guess for me 'good enough' has meant that I'm encouraged enough to
continue working with these rather than trying to come up with something
better (for omni attic antennae). Someday soon I hope to get moved and get
my tower re-planted... (probably will keep these for 'attic-work' tho)
Perhaps in the mean time I can come up with some more meaningful methods
to measure the EggbeaterII performance. I guess monitoring a return-link
beacon is about the only way to interpret just one antenna at a time.
Any suggestions or recommendations welcome.
Thanks /;^)
--
<- Licensed in 1976, WB5RMG = Alan Sieg * AMSAT#20554 ->
<- http://www.somenet.net * http://wb5rmg.somenet.net ->
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:15:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K5OE antenna projects
To: Alan Sieg WB5RMG <wb5rmg@xxxxxxx.xxx>, amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <20081206231531.AII32394@xxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Perhaps in the mean time I can come
> up with some more meaningful methods
> to measure the EggbeaterII performance.
> Any suggestions or recommendations welcome.
A very simple method for OMNI anennas is to simply monitor what you hear
relative to elevation angle. Done. To gauge how well an omni antenna
performs on a given satellite, you only need one number... that is, you can
say a given satellite is generally "useable above elevation angle X on my
antenna Y". That is all one needs to compare for any LEO.
If you look at the plot of elevation angles and path-loss, shown on
www.aprs.org/rotator1.html, you will see a table that shows how LOSS compares
to elevation angle.
EL CUM-% RANGE PATH-GAIN
--- ----- ----- ---------
10 32 3030 0
20 67 2440 2
30 84 1827 5
40 92 1460 6
50 96 1190 7
60 98 1020 9
This shows that you get almost 9 dB of gain on an omni antenna depending on
how close the satellite is, and that is simply proportional to elevation
angle.
The cumulative percent column shows the total access time BELOW that angle.
Notice that signals above 30 degrees are 5 or more dB stronger, but you miss
84% of total access times. Above 45 degrees most LEO's are 6 or more dB
stronger and can be heard on just about any antenna, but this only occurs less
than 5% of the time.
But anyway, it gives a universal single number comparison of omni antenna
performance. Now of couse, what does "useable" mean is debatable as well.
But most people can agree approximately. Of course there are nulls and fades,
but I am not counting that. I am counting "mostly" useable as my criteria.
Said another way, you can -never- hear some LEO's below some angle on an omni
because there are very few things that can "enhance" a signal, though there
are lots that can deminish it. So again, lowest-workable-elevation-angle is a
pretty good discriminant for a given OMNI installation.
Of course vertical gain-omni's can put more gain on the horizon (typical base-
station antennas), but then at the expense of higher angle coverage. And
since even a vertical gain omni antenna that is great for base station use
might just barely hear some satellites low on the horizon, their nulls and
poor performance at higher angles (where the satellite is MUCH stronger) is
giving up the best part of the omni link to a spaceccraft, and why no one
would use one for satelltie work.
So as everyone is getting tired of hearing me say... my preferred antenna is a
19" whip over a ground plane (like the roof of my car) with short coax, that
has 5 dBi gain on 2m and almost 7 dBi gain at UHF as a 3/4 wave vertical above
25 degrees or so. This combined with the 6dB of range improvement above 30
degrees for a LEO gives you almost 13 dBi gain performance (like a beam) for a
simple omni (but only for the best overhead passes). But hey, it sure is
simple, consistent and always works for high passes!
An no moving parts, or tracking required, and usually, no doppler. I usually
tune 5 KHz high for UHF birds so that I hear them the soonest that they get
high-enough (and close enough) to be heard. But just fixed tuning at the
center freq also works since you only hear the center few minutes of a pass
anyway.
Just something to consider.
Bob, Wb4APR
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:18:08 -0800
From: Dave Guimont <dguimon1@xxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K5OE antenna projects
To: "Alan Sieg WB5RMG" <wb5rmg@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Cc: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<20081207041811.FEVN29639.cdptpa-
omta05.mail.rr.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Hi Alan,
I designed and built a quadfilar described at:
http://home.san.rr.com/doguimont/uploads
as quadfil1.zip
And it proved superior to an eggbeater...My
method of testing comparatively, is quite
simple, I did coax switching, and made an
immediate comparison by listening on a hamsat...
My old tired ears did the evaluation..
I use a 435 and 2 meter version, mounted on a
fixed 40? EL, and rotate with an inexpensive TV rotor...
The coax connectors are the most expensive part
of the antenna, and of course use type N's at
435, best to use them at 2 meters.
Mount them both vertically, and you will get good
results at all ELs above 30?..........
73, Dave, WB6LLO
dguimon1@xxx.xx.xxx
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:03:24 -0800
From: "ki6rrq" <ki6rrq@xxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Amsat-BB Elliptical Orbit Satellites & the ISS
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID:
<20081207060325.WAIJ11567.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm a fairly new ham and been working AO-51 and the ISS, so far. Can
anyone tell me which (if any) satellites, that we can work, have elliptical
orbits that would give us prolonged passes for longer talk times?
Lastly, I can hear lots of traffic on the ISS cross band but my 5 watt HT
cant seem to compete. I have not been able to get a QSO on the ISS, in a
dozen attempts. (Arrow antenna, got a bunch of SSTV pics from Richard
Garriott but no voice) So I hope someone can respond to my call on the
pass that begins about 2:01 UTC over Southern California, father away the
better. (DM-13) Thanks!
Rich KI6RRQ
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:10:03 +0900
From: Mineo Wakita <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS 9600 succeeded in digipeat
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <37C958433504A5ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I succeeded in digipeat via ISS 145.825MHz simplex 9600bps G3RUH,
at 07:43:10 UTC (16:43:10 JST) 7Dec2008.
I noticed that there is no [*] via ARISS.
JE9PEL>CQ,ARISS [12/07/08 16:43:10] <UI R>:Hello
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 04:45:55 EST
From: G0MRF@xxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Re Choppy ISS signals
To: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <d47.35a52940.366cf553@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi.
If you look at the received signal strength on the downlink, the crew are
saving the radios from overheating by having the squelch turned up. i.e. the
radios get a big rest over the oceans. Unless you put in a fairly large signal
then the squelch drops out and part of the transmission is lost. Result: It
sounds 'choppy'
David G0MRF
In a message dated 06/12/2008 21:53:38 GMT Standard Time, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
writes:
I believe it has to do with the relative position of the antenna(s) on the
ISS and all the "stuff" connected to the station that run in different
directions. I can see how the antennas might be blocked from out "line of
sight" as
this module or that solar array "gets in the way" on a given pass.
Any other thoughts about it out there?
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:53:09 +0000
From: Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K5OE antenna projects
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <493BB925.8040807@xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Alan Sieg WB5RMG wrote:
> For those unable to locate the original K5OE web pages (thanks AOL)...
> I found this site today, apparently a sanctioned mirror.
> http://www.observations.biz/K5OE/
>
> I have built and currently use both the 2m and the 70cm version of
> the Texas Eggbeater II. These are great omni antennae, suitable for
> use from the attic. They exhibit horizontal polarization on the horizon
> and become circular as elevation increases. Makes them useful for the
> VHF contests as well. Also easy to take and setup at Field Day. Even
> without a preamp, these are good enough for most LEO satellites.
>
> Thanks Jerry, I really like these ... /;^)
I built the Handi-tenna design, and used that to chase all the LEO
satellites before I got an HT that was capable of talking to the, too.
Great little antenna, and easy to build too.
Gordon
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 07:15:49 -0600
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: LOTW Satellite name for ISS ?
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <2000D391DE60401DA796F338B940C849@xxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The ISS is sometimes a satellite, and sometimes not. Depends on what you
are doing. (And what side of the bed the appropriate ARRL official got up
on.) There was a kerfuffle just before Field Day this year about counting
digied packet contacts. It eventually was a moot point, since the digi was
turned off just before Field Day.
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:12:29 +0700
From: " Dirgantara R YF0EEE" <enggi1401@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS 9600 succeeded in digipeat
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <001c01c95876$4886f880$029e517c@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Just only setup 9600 bps , I still cannot monitoring ISS in 9600bps use
TASCO Modem EJ-50U
it is a QRV power now ?
73 de YF0EEE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mineo Wakita" <ei7m-wkt@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xx>
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS 9600 succeeded in digipeat
>
> I succeeded in digipeat via ISS 145.825MHz simplex 9600bps G3RUH,
> at 07:43:10 UTC (16:43:10 JST) 7Dec2008.
> I noticed that there is no [*] via ARISS.
>
> JE9PEL>CQ,ARISS [12/07/08 16:43:10] <UI R>:Hello
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:46:22 -0500
From: Curt Nixon <cptcurt@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Answer from ARRL on ISS and LoTW
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <493BE1BE.9010503@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I sent a request to the LoTW help line regarding uploading ISS
contacts. The answer was we cannot upload these as SAT contacts until
the next revision of LoTW. They said "Stand by (not soon)"
So there you have it. I'll just hang on to them until later.
They all went ok to eQSL BTW with ARISS or ISS as SAT_NAME
Curt
KU8L
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:30:59 +0000
From: n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Re Choppy ISS signals
To: G0MRF@xxx.xxxx amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID:
<120720081530.20178.493BEC330001A59D00004ED222193100029B0A02D2089B9A019C
04040A0DBF049BCC02@xxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
David,
Thank you for posting this. I presume your initial statement about observing
received signal stength suggests that the radios are set for high-power TX at
the ISS and, thus, the squelch is cranked up to somewhat limit the TX time
and, consequently, the buildup of heat in the onboard radios.
In the middle of the melee over the eastern U.S. just after Midnight UTC last
night, I made contacts with two different stations while transmitting 5 watts
out from my HT into a handheld 0-gain omni antenna (the small dual-band
eFactor) that I fashioned a handle for, to use in testing what works and what
doesn't for handheld satellite/ISS stations. According to the tracking
software I use, the ISS was below 30 degrees and descending at the time. I'm
pleased I was able to break the squelch up there!
Thanks again for posting this.
73,
Tim
-------------- Original message from G0MRF@xxx.xxxx --------------
Hi.
If you look at the received signal strength on the downlink, the crew are
saving the radios from overheating by having the squelch turned up. i.e. the
radios get a big rest over the oceans. Unless you put in a fairly large signal
then the squelch drops out and part of the transmission is lost. Result: It
sounds 'choppy'
David G0MRF
In a message dated 06/12/2008 21:53:38 GMT Standard Time, n3tl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
writes:
I believe it has to do with the relative position of the antenna(s) on the ISS
and all the "stuff" connected to the station that run in different directions.
I can see how the antennas might be blocked from out "line of sight" as this
module or that solar array "gets in the way" on a given pass.
Any other thoughts about it out there?
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:35:20 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] PCSAT-1 Operations Guidelines
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <362708E884754258A7BB306397FB9E8B@xxxxx.xxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
We are attempting to restore PCSAT-1 to full operation.
Until we are successful, we need to ask all users to stop using
the W3ADO-1 callsign. You may prepare for full operation with
the PCSAT-1, ARISS and WIDEn-N digipeating aliases, and as soon
as PCSAT is capable of supporting a user load, then your packets
will get through.
Today, we attempted to logon to do some preparation work, but
the satellite was being beat-to-death literally by users. Of
the many dozens and dozens of packets, W3ADO-1 could not
successfully complete even a single packet without failure. It
cannot support this kind of load until we get the batteires
charged up, and we cannot restore PCSAT if we cannot get in a
few good packets.
So we request users to stop using W3ADO-1 until we activate the
proper PCSAT-1 callsigns and digipeater.
Oh, also, due to problems with outside access to the original
PCSAT web page, we have moved it off-site to:
www.aprs.org/pcsat.html But notice that all links are broken on
this new site until we have time to re-direct them. In the mean
time, though, that is where we will put CURRENT information.
Thanks
Bob, Wb4APR
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:04:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: andy thomas <andythomasmail@xxxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS/MKS sending SSTV
To: amsat <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <735650.10917.qm@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Two pictures sent from ISS in last orbit, camera is evidently in the same
location as it was for Monday's "Shadow" (plasma group) experiment.
73 de andy G0SFJ
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:06:39 -0500
From: "Guy Brauning" <guyjeanbraun@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Kenwood TH-F6A for AO-51 / SO-50??
To: <amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx>
Message-ID: <000001c9588e$2ca4d4d0$85ee7e70$@xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks for reading this. I am considering buying an HT for AO-51 and SO-50
as well as AO-27 (hopefully!). I have been using a Yaesu FT-817 and either
an Arrow or Elk antenna and this has worked very well; however, an HT would
be easier to carry around. I am looking for recommendations / warnings /
etc. specific to the Kenwood TH-F6A. I would like some advice from those
who have used the radio for satellite work before I shell out $320.00. I
seriously considered a used IC-W32A on e-bay but it went for over $150.00
and I couldn't see paying that much for something that may or may not work
properly. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Guy
N3SCR
Finksburg, MD
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:23:26 -0500
From: Curt Nixon <cptcurt@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Question re rx/tx relays and diplexer
To: amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx
Message-ID: <493C149E.1040009@xxxxx.xxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Good Afternoon All:
I am working on packaging and interconnections for a mast-mounted unit
for my 70cm system.
My plan now is to place the preamp, a diplexer, and t/r relay all inside
a single aluminum box.
In and out will be N connectors.
Internally, I am thinking of SMA links and pigtails.
My 70 cm rig can produce a maximum of 35watts right now.
Do commercial coaxial relays for t/r use short the rx line when in tx?
or do they leave it float?
Also, should the 2M output on the diplexer for desense be terminated? or
left open.
Finally, what type small coax would be appropriate for use inside this
box between modules?
Main feedline is LMR400.
Thanks
Curt
KU8L
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@xxxxx.xxx. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 3, Issue 636
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